Carefree Truth
Issue #506, August 15, 2016
M.C. Preston Westmoreland said the next question was for the Mayor. "How can the Town of Carefree clean up the decaying Spanish Village? A lot of people were fans of Carefree Station and they vacated. Can you work with the owner and have them step it up or be fined?"
Mayor Les Peterson explained that, by State Statute, a public entity cannot spend your money for a private individual. We are very limited in terms of what we can do by force. We can only talk to them and attempt to motivate them. Off the record, we understand that Spanish Village is in escrow and that the new owner will be more aggressive, is looking for new tenants, and is looking to invest in the property.
The Town is doing things to make the commercial climate more viable. Building heights were recently raised from 24' to 30'. Since they were lowered to 24' in 2004 to match residential heights, no new commercial buildings have been built. After an 8-10 year battle with the Arizona Corporation Commission, sewer rates have been revised. There has been a re-balancing between residential and commercial rates. Small restaurants can't be expected to pay $800-$1,000 per month sewer bills and stay in business. We are working with the landlords as much as we can, but there are very few bullets in our legal guns.
Preston Westmoreland followed with more questions meant for all the candidates:
"I'm concerned about Starbucks taking business from local coffee shops. Is this the beginning of a trend of national chains in town? Is it more important to get an anchor that's a national chain and has some name cache, at the sacrifice of the local businesses?"
Candidate Jim Van Allen said there are at least 4 coffee shops in Cave Creek but we don't have a single one in Carefree, and never have had that he can remember. You can get coffee at the Black Mountain Coffee Shop, or in season at the Sundial Cafe, but they are not Starbucks type coffee. He was reminded by several people that the Carefree Coffee Roastery is located in Carefree, next to Alberto Ristorante. He said he hadn't been over there.
Candidate Cheryl Kroyer worked on the Starbucks business, and part of the rap against them is that they come in and put the local Mom & Pops out of business. But when Starbucks would go into a small community, the residents thought they "made it" because they have a Starbucks. "Frankly, Starbucks has a really good product and I personally will like having one around." She knows there is a coffee roaster in town, but has never been there. Other than that, we don't really have a coffee option. She thinks Starbucks will be a nice addition.
Mayor Peterson reminded everyone that Starbucks will be part of Basha's, and the Town cannot stop it. Had steps been taken to discourage it there's a very good chance that we would have lost Basha's, which is very important from a tax standpoint. Some people prefer the smaller places. The Carefree Coffee Roastry and the Black Mountain Coffee Shop are wonderful places, and he felt they each have a different clientele than Starbucks.
Councilman Mike Farrar added that it's not the Town's business to be involved in private business. Economic forces dictate what businesses come into your community.
Preston Westmoreland then asked:
"What is your vision for Carefree? Is it one house on top of another, and I might preface that by saying my impression is that Carefree incorporated a long time ago because Scottsdale was salivating about annexing Carefree, and we wanted to keep a lower density and not have all the houses on top of one another, but we're getting into that phase anyway."
Mayor Peterson responded, "If there's a request that we get from our residents it is, 'We're a couple that have lived here for 25 years. We love it. Our church is here; our friends are here; we're involved in charities; we know it; we don't want to go anywhere else. But a 5,000 square foot house on 4 acres is just too much. So don't you have something that's a high quality, lower square footage, close to the downtown area kind of development that we can go to?' " They are looking for something affordable so they can get money out of their big home, put a fraction of that into a new home, and still stay here among their friends. Keystone's Almarte subdivision is almost sold out, and many living there were Carefree residents previously. Candidate Cheryl Kroyer is among them, as is Binka Schwan, wife of former mayor David Schwan. This led Keystone to do Eastwood, up by Pima Road. There are those who want a 5,000 square foot house on 4 acres, and those neighborhoods won't change. But there is also a place for higher density areas close to the downtown to satisfy the needs of some of our citizens.
Councilman Farrar added that it is healthy to have a variation of housing stock in any community. Workforce housing attracts families, and affordable housing allows people to downsize and stay within our community who don't need the 5,000 square foot house. A balance attracts people and it keeps people here.
Vice Mayor John Crane agreed with the Mayor. We were founded as a community with 1 acre plus properties. But many residents have been here much longer than he. They have family and friends, church connections. They want to stay and live out their days here, but they can't maintain a big house. There is a market demand for smaller units, but we have to think critically about where to put them. Almarte is in a great place. Eastwood is by an office complex and an assisted living facility, and across from the airport. Selectively, there is room for this and a demand for it.
Preston Westmoreland asked:
"Will we be having more free concerts like we used to have in the town center, or rather, should we have free concerts?"
Mayor Peterson replied that the 5 or 6 free Sunday concerts were well attended this past season, usually attracting 300-500 people. Many of the performance groups have a following, so they bring people in from all over. They each cost in the $1,000 to $2,000 range, and many of the stores were closed on Sunday, so it wasn't a pay-out proposition. They will probably be reduced to 4 during the coming season, and be held during major festivals to help build traffic.
Preston Westmoreland had a question of his own. "What can be done to preserve the history and the uniqueness of Carefree?" When he and his wife moved here 30 years ago, there was almost like a secret society, people extremely powerful and very well known, who didn't want anybody to know they lived here, all of these very famous people. (He went through a litany of very impressive names.) It was never publicized a lot, with the exception of Hugh Downs. Tourist buses used to stop outside of his house. He finally put his wife's maiden name out front so people would think he moved. Gordon Lightfoot has a picture on his wall of the Carefree Highway sign. On the way to a concert at Gammage he had his tour bus stop so he could take a picture of the sign on I-17. He wrote a song about it that sold 30 million copies. "Are we beginning to lose that uniqueness and that cache? What will you do to change it?"
Candidate Mike Krahe said nobody wants to lose that quaintness you just described. It's a delicate balance between how you grow a place, advance a town, and keep its unique character. The only way is to have people who are committed to not destroying its uniqueness. We need to have conversations in Council meetings as we build economic development plans so we can all agree that we're OK with what's being done and where we're going. We would never want it to turn into something different. We have magic up here, a unique recipe that can't be found anywhere else on the planet. We have saguaros, petroglyphs, on our properties. We should never want to change all this. But we have to find our way in the balancing act. It's not going to be a quick fix that happens overnight. As homes come in, it's like changing the wheels on a moving car. You can't let one thing drop and let something else go. Your best bet is having people who are committed to maintaining that balance.
Vice Mayor Crane joked that the secret society still exists, it's just a better kept secret; there are still celebrities who live around here. But he said Mike is right; the key is to maintain the character of the town. There are financial pressures to make the town run. Citizens are demanding more services. It's just the way America is today. There has to be economic development and more revenue for the town, while maintaining the character at the same time, so it's a delicate balance. And we're on board with that. It shows in what has been done in the past few years and what will be done in the future.
Candidate Kroyer joked that we need a secret handshake so other people don't sneak in here. But as Mike said, it's a balancing act. What kind of anchor do we want to bring in here? Certainly, we don't want a Walmart in the center of town, and we need to avoid over-commercializing the area. The candidates and the citizens are here because of the uniqueness of our community. We must insure that we don't change that balance while we find ways to increase our revenues.
Mayor Peterson pointed out that when the celebrities lived here long ago, Carefree was perhaps 20% built out. People sank wells and had septic tanks. Now, it's 80% built out. We have a water company and are serviced by a sewer company. The Town has had to invest in infrastructure, $19 million in 1999; the water company is putting in another $10-11 million. With 4 times the number of people, infrastructure is required. To pay for this, we need economic anchors, which changes the nature. It's not the pristine desert that is once was. The challenge is to accommodate economic development for the necessary services and still maintain as much as possible of the pristine desert we once had.
When asked, Candidate Van Allen replied, "Preston, I don't know. I really just don't know." He moved here in 2001 because of Carefree's reputation and the beauty of the community. The same Carefree is still around him. As Cheryl said, we don't want a Walmart in the middle of town. It would ruin Carefree. The stores downtown are still Mom and Pops; many are "hobby" stores. The restaurants are OK, but unfortunately don't do the kind of volume as the ones in our friend Cave Creek. In the 2011 Citizen Survey, people said they wanted modestly priced restaurants like small chains. Carefree restaurants are specialized. He's not sure we have the ability to make it to the top of the hill.
At this juncture, I reminded Mr. Westmoreland that we only had the room for another few minutes. He told a quick story about how Hugh Downs built the first house on the runway at Sky Ranch airport as a spec home. Renowned architect Gerry Jones helped him. They argued about who would buy the house. Hugh Downs thought it would be a pilot, while Gerry Jones was sure it would be a golfer. The house sold quickly. Hugh Downs said to the buyer, "What kind of plane to you fly?" He said he didn't fly a plane. "What's your handicap in golf?" He said he didn't play golf. Mr. Downs asked him why he bought a house on the runway of Sky Ranch, one of the top aviation communities in the world, and bordering the world class Desert Forest Golf Club when he didn't fly and didn't play golf. The buyer answered, "Where are you going to get a view like this?"
Mr. Westmoreland returned to the previous question, calling on Councilman Farrar to say how he would preserve the historical integrity of Carefree. Mr. Farrar said it's inherent in our General Plan, and we pay attention to that. The Town engaged the Michael Baker Group to develop a Carefree Village Center Master Plan. We live here and love this community. Many of us moved here because of the beautiful geography, the quirky little town. The Master Plan is an amazing plan. Last November, it won the Best Master Plan Project Study Award given by the American Planning Association. We're proud of that. The answer is imbedded in the General Plan and the downtown Master Plan.
Councilman Gene Orrico noted that Mr. Westmoreland mentioned the celebrities who were here at the beginning of Carefree's existence. In his estimation, the celebrities are the people sitting in this room, who are living in Carefree now. The one thing for sure is that everything is in a constant state of change. The Carefree Desert Gardens was a dirt lot before the Town spent over $6 million dollars to develop it. Our concern should be for the people who are here now.
A member of the audience rose and asked if she could make a comment. She is a retired language professor from New Mexico and her husband has lived in Carefree for over 25 years. She finds it unpleasant, to say the least, that the streets are blocked during festivals with the exception of access to Town Hall. Nobody is going shopping at Town Hall. She asked that some openings please be left to go to the businesses. She would appreciate it very much. Mayor Peterson acknowledged that she had a good point.
Candidate Van Allen added that all the candidates for Town Council are very responsive to information, questions, and suggestions. He asked that people please take a minute or two in the next couple of months to send suggestions to Town Hall. Tell us, "Here's what I want you folks to do for me." www.carefree.org.
Out of time, Preston Westmoreland thanked everybody for coming and the forum concluded.
https://vimeo.com/178350239
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list. Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.
Issue #506, August 15, 2016
M.C. Preston Westmoreland said the next question was for the Mayor. "How can the Town of Carefree clean up the decaying Spanish Village? A lot of people were fans of Carefree Station and they vacated. Can you work with the owner and have them step it up or be fined?"
Mayor Les Peterson explained that, by State Statute, a public entity cannot spend your money for a private individual. We are very limited in terms of what we can do by force. We can only talk to them and attempt to motivate them. Off the record, we understand that Spanish Village is in escrow and that the new owner will be more aggressive, is looking for new tenants, and is looking to invest in the property.
The Town is doing things to make the commercial climate more viable. Building heights were recently raised from 24' to 30'. Since they were lowered to 24' in 2004 to match residential heights, no new commercial buildings have been built. After an 8-10 year battle with the Arizona Corporation Commission, sewer rates have been revised. There has been a re-balancing between residential and commercial rates. Small restaurants can't be expected to pay $800-$1,000 per month sewer bills and stay in business. We are working with the landlords as much as we can, but there are very few bullets in our legal guns.
Preston Westmoreland followed with more questions meant for all the candidates:
"I'm concerned about Starbucks taking business from local coffee shops. Is this the beginning of a trend of national chains in town? Is it more important to get an anchor that's a national chain and has some name cache, at the sacrifice of the local businesses?"
Candidate Jim Van Allen said there are at least 4 coffee shops in Cave Creek but we don't have a single one in Carefree, and never have had that he can remember. You can get coffee at the Black Mountain Coffee Shop, or in season at the Sundial Cafe, but they are not Starbucks type coffee. He was reminded by several people that the Carefree Coffee Roastery is located in Carefree, next to Alberto Ristorante. He said he hadn't been over there.
Candidate Cheryl Kroyer worked on the Starbucks business, and part of the rap against them is that they come in and put the local Mom & Pops out of business. But when Starbucks would go into a small community, the residents thought they "made it" because they have a Starbucks. "Frankly, Starbucks has a really good product and I personally will like having one around." She knows there is a coffee roaster in town, but has never been there. Other than that, we don't really have a coffee option. She thinks Starbucks will be a nice addition.
Mayor Peterson reminded everyone that Starbucks will be part of Basha's, and the Town cannot stop it. Had steps been taken to discourage it there's a very good chance that we would have lost Basha's, which is very important from a tax standpoint. Some people prefer the smaller places. The Carefree Coffee Roastry and the Black Mountain Coffee Shop are wonderful places, and he felt they each have a different clientele than Starbucks.
Councilman Mike Farrar added that it's not the Town's business to be involved in private business. Economic forces dictate what businesses come into your community.
Preston Westmoreland then asked:
"What is your vision for Carefree? Is it one house on top of another, and I might preface that by saying my impression is that Carefree incorporated a long time ago because Scottsdale was salivating about annexing Carefree, and we wanted to keep a lower density and not have all the houses on top of one another, but we're getting into that phase anyway."
Mayor Peterson responded, "If there's a request that we get from our residents it is, 'We're a couple that have lived here for 25 years. We love it. Our church is here; our friends are here; we're involved in charities; we know it; we don't want to go anywhere else. But a 5,000 square foot house on 4 acres is just too much. So don't you have something that's a high quality, lower square footage, close to the downtown area kind of development that we can go to?' " They are looking for something affordable so they can get money out of their big home, put a fraction of that into a new home, and still stay here among their friends. Keystone's Almarte subdivision is almost sold out, and many living there were Carefree residents previously. Candidate Cheryl Kroyer is among them, as is Binka Schwan, wife of former mayor David Schwan. This led Keystone to do Eastwood, up by Pima Road. There are those who want a 5,000 square foot house on 4 acres, and those neighborhoods won't change. But there is also a place for higher density areas close to the downtown to satisfy the needs of some of our citizens.
Councilman Farrar added that it is healthy to have a variation of housing stock in any community. Workforce housing attracts families, and affordable housing allows people to downsize and stay within our community who don't need the 5,000 square foot house. A balance attracts people and it keeps people here.
Vice Mayor John Crane agreed with the Mayor. We were founded as a community with 1 acre plus properties. But many residents have been here much longer than he. They have family and friends, church connections. They want to stay and live out their days here, but they can't maintain a big house. There is a market demand for smaller units, but we have to think critically about where to put them. Almarte is in a great place. Eastwood is by an office complex and an assisted living facility, and across from the airport. Selectively, there is room for this and a demand for it.
Preston Westmoreland asked:
"Will we be having more free concerts like we used to have in the town center, or rather, should we have free concerts?"
Mayor Peterson replied that the 5 or 6 free Sunday concerts were well attended this past season, usually attracting 300-500 people. Many of the performance groups have a following, so they bring people in from all over. They each cost in the $1,000 to $2,000 range, and many of the stores were closed on Sunday, so it wasn't a pay-out proposition. They will probably be reduced to 4 during the coming season, and be held during major festivals to help build traffic.
Preston Westmoreland had a question of his own. "What can be done to preserve the history and the uniqueness of Carefree?" When he and his wife moved here 30 years ago, there was almost like a secret society, people extremely powerful and very well known, who didn't want anybody to know they lived here, all of these very famous people. (He went through a litany of very impressive names.) It was never publicized a lot, with the exception of Hugh Downs. Tourist buses used to stop outside of his house. He finally put his wife's maiden name out front so people would think he moved. Gordon Lightfoot has a picture on his wall of the Carefree Highway sign. On the way to a concert at Gammage he had his tour bus stop so he could take a picture of the sign on I-17. He wrote a song about it that sold 30 million copies. "Are we beginning to lose that uniqueness and that cache? What will you do to change it?"
Candidate Mike Krahe said nobody wants to lose that quaintness you just described. It's a delicate balance between how you grow a place, advance a town, and keep its unique character. The only way is to have people who are committed to not destroying its uniqueness. We need to have conversations in Council meetings as we build economic development plans so we can all agree that we're OK with what's being done and where we're going. We would never want it to turn into something different. We have magic up here, a unique recipe that can't be found anywhere else on the planet. We have saguaros, petroglyphs, on our properties. We should never want to change all this. But we have to find our way in the balancing act. It's not going to be a quick fix that happens overnight. As homes come in, it's like changing the wheels on a moving car. You can't let one thing drop and let something else go. Your best bet is having people who are committed to maintaining that balance.
Vice Mayor Crane joked that the secret society still exists, it's just a better kept secret; there are still celebrities who live around here. But he said Mike is right; the key is to maintain the character of the town. There are financial pressures to make the town run. Citizens are demanding more services. It's just the way America is today. There has to be economic development and more revenue for the town, while maintaining the character at the same time, so it's a delicate balance. And we're on board with that. It shows in what has been done in the past few years and what will be done in the future.
Candidate Kroyer joked that we need a secret handshake so other people don't sneak in here. But as Mike said, it's a balancing act. What kind of anchor do we want to bring in here? Certainly, we don't want a Walmart in the center of town, and we need to avoid over-commercializing the area. The candidates and the citizens are here because of the uniqueness of our community. We must insure that we don't change that balance while we find ways to increase our revenues.
Mayor Peterson pointed out that when the celebrities lived here long ago, Carefree was perhaps 20% built out. People sank wells and had septic tanks. Now, it's 80% built out. We have a water company and are serviced by a sewer company. The Town has had to invest in infrastructure, $19 million in 1999; the water company is putting in another $10-11 million. With 4 times the number of people, infrastructure is required. To pay for this, we need economic anchors, which changes the nature. It's not the pristine desert that is once was. The challenge is to accommodate economic development for the necessary services and still maintain as much as possible of the pristine desert we once had.
When asked, Candidate Van Allen replied, "Preston, I don't know. I really just don't know." He moved here in 2001 because of Carefree's reputation and the beauty of the community. The same Carefree is still around him. As Cheryl said, we don't want a Walmart in the middle of town. It would ruin Carefree. The stores downtown are still Mom and Pops; many are "hobby" stores. The restaurants are OK, but unfortunately don't do the kind of volume as the ones in our friend Cave Creek. In the 2011 Citizen Survey, people said they wanted modestly priced restaurants like small chains. Carefree restaurants are specialized. He's not sure we have the ability to make it to the top of the hill.
At this juncture, I reminded Mr. Westmoreland that we only had the room for another few minutes. He told a quick story about how Hugh Downs built the first house on the runway at Sky Ranch airport as a spec home. Renowned architect Gerry Jones helped him. They argued about who would buy the house. Hugh Downs thought it would be a pilot, while Gerry Jones was sure it would be a golfer. The house sold quickly. Hugh Downs said to the buyer, "What kind of plane to you fly?" He said he didn't fly a plane. "What's your handicap in golf?" He said he didn't play golf. Mr. Downs asked him why he bought a house on the runway of Sky Ranch, one of the top aviation communities in the world, and bordering the world class Desert Forest Golf Club when he didn't fly and didn't play golf. The buyer answered, "Where are you going to get a view like this?"
Mr. Westmoreland returned to the previous question, calling on Councilman Farrar to say how he would preserve the historical integrity of Carefree. Mr. Farrar said it's inherent in our General Plan, and we pay attention to that. The Town engaged the Michael Baker Group to develop a Carefree Village Center Master Plan. We live here and love this community. Many of us moved here because of the beautiful geography, the quirky little town. The Master Plan is an amazing plan. Last November, it won the Best Master Plan Project Study Award given by the American Planning Association. We're proud of that. The answer is imbedded in the General Plan and the downtown Master Plan.
Councilman Gene Orrico noted that Mr. Westmoreland mentioned the celebrities who were here at the beginning of Carefree's existence. In his estimation, the celebrities are the people sitting in this room, who are living in Carefree now. The one thing for sure is that everything is in a constant state of change. The Carefree Desert Gardens was a dirt lot before the Town spent over $6 million dollars to develop it. Our concern should be for the people who are here now.
A member of the audience rose and asked if she could make a comment. She is a retired language professor from New Mexico and her husband has lived in Carefree for over 25 years. She finds it unpleasant, to say the least, that the streets are blocked during festivals with the exception of access to Town Hall. Nobody is going shopping at Town Hall. She asked that some openings please be left to go to the businesses. She would appreciate it very much. Mayor Peterson acknowledged that she had a good point.
Candidate Van Allen added that all the candidates for Town Council are very responsive to information, questions, and suggestions. He asked that people please take a minute or two in the next couple of months to send suggestions to Town Hall. Tell us, "Here's what I want you folks to do for me." www.carefree.org.
Out of time, Preston Westmoreland thanked everybody for coming and the forum concluded.
https://vimeo.com/178350239
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list. Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.