Carefree Truth
Issue #588, September 2, 2017
Gary Neiss began the presentation by providing some history. Carefree's Town Center is one of the longest running attempts at economic development in the Valley, an effort lasting close to 45 years. The town center is the economic engine that helps provide the services that Carefree citizens enjoy.
In February of 2014, the Town conducted an all day public charrette with the Urban Land Institute (ULI). The ULI panel consisted of successful specialists representing commercial development of outdoor centers, community real estate, and financial lending. They evaluated the brick and mortar establishments and made suggestions about how to best move forward. (Lyn's note: I attended this charrette, which was very interesting and informative.)
As a result of this meeting, after looking at proposals from several Master Planning organizations, the Town hired the Michael Baker Group to create a Master Plan/Vision to be utilized for the downtown revitalization. From start to finish, this was a one year process. During that time, the Baker group reached out to commercial property owners, residents, Council members, Planning & Zoning Commissioners and the Town staff. They produced an award winning Master Plan which was recognized by the State of Arizona as being an outstanding revitalization plan for small communities. This showed that Carefree was going in the right direction. One element of that Master Plan stressed the need for a residential component in the downtown.
Ed Lewis's condominium product was unable to receive financing because it did not align with Federal Departments. But the current owner, who purchased the property from Ed Lewis, has been working with the gentlemen who are presenting the proposed apartment project, Robert Stehlik of Starworks Global Development, and Lawrence Gabriele of Azil Development, who have been very successful.
They are working locally, understand the market, see the niche for luxury rental apartments in the town center, and understand the direction in which Carefree wishes to go. There are economic realities and risks with a property this size. Carefree's vision is to create a meaningful critical mass in the town center in order to attract retail and restaurants that will be successful. What is here today will not provide sufficient revenue to fund the services enjoyed by the citizens now and into the future.
The first step in this process is revisiting the Development Agreement. This is an administrative act that looks at the previously approved standards. The applicants are asking for some refinements and will be explaining why. The next step, if this is approved by the Council, would be the review of the site plan and architectural renderings by the Development Review Board (DRB), a process that is defined by Ordinance. The final step will be the issuance of a building permit after review by the staff to insure conformance with the building codes and zoning requirements. Mr. Neiss finished his part of the presentation by introducing Larry Gabriele, who would be making the presentation, and Robert Stehlik, as well as the architect, Doug Whitney, of Whitney Bell.
Larry Gabriele said he's been a resident of North Scottsdale since 1990. He introduced Justin Ferrandi, the Chief Operating Officer of INCA, a real estate financing firm that currently owns the Easy Street South parcel. He also introduced his partner, Robert Shehlik, and architect Doug Whitney, all of whom were in attendance.
Mr. Gabriele explained that they were there to request an amendment to just to one specific provision in the existing Development Agreement. The prior Agreement was issued for a condominium project with a height of 48'. The request was for 4' additional feet, which would enable them to develop luxury rental units that would be economically feasible for financing and for success. He said several of the Council members had expressed the desire not to have a "box". The architectural firm's priority is to design an undulating building with a tremendous amount of movement, shadows, and "in & out" features. This would be the highest end development of its kind in the Scottsdale/Carefree area. It would contain 134 units upwards of 1500-1600 square feet each. Normally, a building of this size contains closer to 170 units.
Mr. Gabriele then spoke about their background, saying they had developed luxury condos, apartments, offices and shopping centers in Arizona, Illinois and Florida. Undulation is The Word; they don't believe in straight lines. They won a national architectural award for a building in London, and are proud of the honors and awards that have been bestowed on their developments. He felt they have the experience to give Carefree a wonderful product. Their vision is to win an award for this project. They are proud of what they have done and want to be equally proud of this development, which will be very unique and visible.
This type of building, and the residents it will attract, will provide vibrancy to the community as well as additional assets. Carefree has a reputation in the Valley as an upscale community, and this will add to that reputation. Amenities will include a second story pool, landscaped terraces as well as landscaping on the lower areas, a large fitness center, a business center, a club house, a game room, a kitchen, a golf cart and a concierge service. The totally full service building will provide a lifestyle. There will be 2 stories of parking, one underground and one partially underground, and each unit will have 2 parking spaces. It will be protected and gated.
Councilman Jim Van Allen said no plans had been included in the packet; they were having to go on the description just presented. The Council only "gets one crack" at the approval. The Town has been dealing with this piece of land for 11 years. He asked if Mr. Gabriele had anything to show to the Council now. Mr. Gabriele replied that it's a chicken and egg situation. Elevations can't be designed without knowing the maximum height that would be allowed. They brought a plate to give some idea of the undulation of the building exterior. He noted the documents state that the elevations are subject to approval by the Development Review Board (DRB), which will insure that the product is as described.
Mr. Van Allen said the DRB used to be the Council but it was switched. Mr. Neiss corrected him, explaining that the Council used to act as the Board of Adjustment but that the DRB has always been comprised of the Planning & Zoning Commissioners. Mr. Gabriele said he understood Mr. Van Allen's concern about not seeing what the building would look like, and would try to give the best possible description so they could "get over this hump" of making sure his team can design this building. He assured the Council that as soon as they get all the elevations, they would send them to each Council member. "If we can't satisfy the Council and the neighbors, we won't have a successful development."
Mr. Van Allen asked if they have luxury apartments that they built, manage and lease now. Mr Gabriele answered, yes, they have several large ones in the Palm Beach and Chicago areas. Many years ago, when developers were allowed to partner with banks, they were partnered with Chemical Bank, one of the largest banks. They have the skill to do this project. He agreed that the Council members don't know him, and they were given a lot of information on paper, but ultimately actions speak louder than words. They wouldn't be asking for this if they didn't think their actions would follow their words.
Mr. Van Allen asked if Ed Lewis was part of their group. Mr. Gabriele said they met with Mr. Lewis to see his vision and get his thoughts, but he is not part of their group. Mr. Van Allen asked if they had closed on the property. Mr. Gabriele replied that they were waiting for approvals. They have a vision and they know their capabilities, but until they know it can be done, they can't close on the property. That is part of the real estate business.
Mayor Les Peterson noted that the applicant was asking for approval to go 4' higher than what was approved for Ed Lewis. "Jim, Gary and I have had some discussions." That approval was for a building 42' high, plus 6' for parapets to screen the utilities, so 48'. Measuring from the same point, this would be 52'. Mr. Gabriele explained that the site has movement, so some parts are taller and some are shorter, but the top parapet will always be at the same elevation. Mr. Van Allen said he read the existing Development Agreement 4 times, and it says "not to exceed 42' above". It doesn't say 6' for parapets. Code says 4', not 6'.
Vice Mayor John Crane suggested a clarification be made about why parapets were included in this Agreement. Mr. Neiss explained that Mr. Lewis had needed to increase the floor to ceiling space by a couple of feet. In order to sell his condos at the high end price point, he needed that additional volume. The height in the Development Agreement captured this livable space. The measurement from the northeast corner to the roof deck was 42'. There was also a Conditional Use Permit (CUP) to screen the rooftop utilities that was not captured in the Development Agreement. The one being presented now captures the elevation from the northeast corner to the top of the parapet. The language is more exact, blending the two together. The CUP kept the equipment from being exposed. 4' would not screen the equipment when looking at the building from some angles. It needs the 6'.
Mr. Van Allen produced a drawing he made that he said would make the architect laugh. The left side showed the northeast corner and the right side showed the lower northwest corner. He quoted code as saying "the building height shall be measured from the ground floor or base floor". He felt that there was a mistake in the 2015 Development Agreement which nobody had caught, that the 42' height was measured from the northeast corner.
Mr. Neiss put up a slide showing the downtown. Towards the upper left side, Elbow Bend Road and the Lutheran Retreat Center can be seen. The Retreat is the highest point in the town center, approximately 42' higher than the respective site. The site is nestled between the Retreat, the Basha's and the Ace big boxes at the center top of the slide, and the 100 Easy Street building where the Post Office is located at the bottom center. There is approximately a 6' drop from Elbow Bend to the site, so the curb line is 6' higher than the curb line along Easy Street. But when looking at downtown areas throughout the desert southwest, one looks at the average curb height. The average curb height occurred at the northeast corner, which is why that was used as a reference.
Issue #588, September 2, 2017
Gary Neiss began the presentation by providing some history. Carefree's Town Center is one of the longest running attempts at economic development in the Valley, an effort lasting close to 45 years. The town center is the economic engine that helps provide the services that Carefree citizens enjoy.
In February of 2014, the Town conducted an all day public charrette with the Urban Land Institute (ULI). The ULI panel consisted of successful specialists representing commercial development of outdoor centers, community real estate, and financial lending. They evaluated the brick and mortar establishments and made suggestions about how to best move forward. (Lyn's note: I attended this charrette, which was very interesting and informative.)
As a result of this meeting, after looking at proposals from several Master Planning organizations, the Town hired the Michael Baker Group to create a Master Plan/Vision to be utilized for the downtown revitalization. From start to finish, this was a one year process. During that time, the Baker group reached out to commercial property owners, residents, Council members, Planning & Zoning Commissioners and the Town staff. They produced an award winning Master Plan which was recognized by the State of Arizona as being an outstanding revitalization plan for small communities. This showed that Carefree was going in the right direction. One element of that Master Plan stressed the need for a residential component in the downtown.
Ed Lewis's condominium product was unable to receive financing because it did not align with Federal Departments. But the current owner, who purchased the property from Ed Lewis, has been working with the gentlemen who are presenting the proposed apartment project, Robert Stehlik of Starworks Global Development, and Lawrence Gabriele of Azil Development, who have been very successful.
They are working locally, understand the market, see the niche for luxury rental apartments in the town center, and understand the direction in which Carefree wishes to go. There are economic realities and risks with a property this size. Carefree's vision is to create a meaningful critical mass in the town center in order to attract retail and restaurants that will be successful. What is here today will not provide sufficient revenue to fund the services enjoyed by the citizens now and into the future.
The first step in this process is revisiting the Development Agreement. This is an administrative act that looks at the previously approved standards. The applicants are asking for some refinements and will be explaining why. The next step, if this is approved by the Council, would be the review of the site plan and architectural renderings by the Development Review Board (DRB), a process that is defined by Ordinance. The final step will be the issuance of a building permit after review by the staff to insure conformance with the building codes and zoning requirements. Mr. Neiss finished his part of the presentation by introducing Larry Gabriele, who would be making the presentation, and Robert Stehlik, as well as the architect, Doug Whitney, of Whitney Bell.
Larry Gabriele said he's been a resident of North Scottsdale since 1990. He introduced Justin Ferrandi, the Chief Operating Officer of INCA, a real estate financing firm that currently owns the Easy Street South parcel. He also introduced his partner, Robert Shehlik, and architect Doug Whitney, all of whom were in attendance.
Mr. Gabriele explained that they were there to request an amendment to just to one specific provision in the existing Development Agreement. The prior Agreement was issued for a condominium project with a height of 48'. The request was for 4' additional feet, which would enable them to develop luxury rental units that would be economically feasible for financing and for success. He said several of the Council members had expressed the desire not to have a "box". The architectural firm's priority is to design an undulating building with a tremendous amount of movement, shadows, and "in & out" features. This would be the highest end development of its kind in the Scottsdale/Carefree area. It would contain 134 units upwards of 1500-1600 square feet each. Normally, a building of this size contains closer to 170 units.
Mr. Gabriele then spoke about their background, saying they had developed luxury condos, apartments, offices and shopping centers in Arizona, Illinois and Florida. Undulation is The Word; they don't believe in straight lines. They won a national architectural award for a building in London, and are proud of the honors and awards that have been bestowed on their developments. He felt they have the experience to give Carefree a wonderful product. Their vision is to win an award for this project. They are proud of what they have done and want to be equally proud of this development, which will be very unique and visible.
This type of building, and the residents it will attract, will provide vibrancy to the community as well as additional assets. Carefree has a reputation in the Valley as an upscale community, and this will add to that reputation. Amenities will include a second story pool, landscaped terraces as well as landscaping on the lower areas, a large fitness center, a business center, a club house, a game room, a kitchen, a golf cart and a concierge service. The totally full service building will provide a lifestyle. There will be 2 stories of parking, one underground and one partially underground, and each unit will have 2 parking spaces. It will be protected and gated.
Councilman Jim Van Allen said no plans had been included in the packet; they were having to go on the description just presented. The Council only "gets one crack" at the approval. The Town has been dealing with this piece of land for 11 years. He asked if Mr. Gabriele had anything to show to the Council now. Mr. Gabriele replied that it's a chicken and egg situation. Elevations can't be designed without knowing the maximum height that would be allowed. They brought a plate to give some idea of the undulation of the building exterior. He noted the documents state that the elevations are subject to approval by the Development Review Board (DRB), which will insure that the product is as described.
Mr. Van Allen said the DRB used to be the Council but it was switched. Mr. Neiss corrected him, explaining that the Council used to act as the Board of Adjustment but that the DRB has always been comprised of the Planning & Zoning Commissioners. Mr. Gabriele said he understood Mr. Van Allen's concern about not seeing what the building would look like, and would try to give the best possible description so they could "get over this hump" of making sure his team can design this building. He assured the Council that as soon as they get all the elevations, they would send them to each Council member. "If we can't satisfy the Council and the neighbors, we won't have a successful development."
Mr. Van Allen asked if they have luxury apartments that they built, manage and lease now. Mr Gabriele answered, yes, they have several large ones in the Palm Beach and Chicago areas. Many years ago, when developers were allowed to partner with banks, they were partnered with Chemical Bank, one of the largest banks. They have the skill to do this project. He agreed that the Council members don't know him, and they were given a lot of information on paper, but ultimately actions speak louder than words. They wouldn't be asking for this if they didn't think their actions would follow their words.
Mr. Van Allen asked if Ed Lewis was part of their group. Mr. Gabriele said they met with Mr. Lewis to see his vision and get his thoughts, but he is not part of their group. Mr. Van Allen asked if they had closed on the property. Mr. Gabriele replied that they were waiting for approvals. They have a vision and they know their capabilities, but until they know it can be done, they can't close on the property. That is part of the real estate business.
Mayor Les Peterson noted that the applicant was asking for approval to go 4' higher than what was approved for Ed Lewis. "Jim, Gary and I have had some discussions." That approval was for a building 42' high, plus 6' for parapets to screen the utilities, so 48'. Measuring from the same point, this would be 52'. Mr. Gabriele explained that the site has movement, so some parts are taller and some are shorter, but the top parapet will always be at the same elevation. Mr. Van Allen said he read the existing Development Agreement 4 times, and it says "not to exceed 42' above". It doesn't say 6' for parapets. Code says 4', not 6'.
Vice Mayor John Crane suggested a clarification be made about why parapets were included in this Agreement. Mr. Neiss explained that Mr. Lewis had needed to increase the floor to ceiling space by a couple of feet. In order to sell his condos at the high end price point, he needed that additional volume. The height in the Development Agreement captured this livable space. The measurement from the northeast corner to the roof deck was 42'. There was also a Conditional Use Permit (CUP) to screen the rooftop utilities that was not captured in the Development Agreement. The one being presented now captures the elevation from the northeast corner to the top of the parapet. The language is more exact, blending the two together. The CUP kept the equipment from being exposed. 4' would not screen the equipment when looking at the building from some angles. It needs the 6'.
Mr. Van Allen produced a drawing he made that he said would make the architect laugh. The left side showed the northeast corner and the right side showed the lower northwest corner. He quoted code as saying "the building height shall be measured from the ground floor or base floor". He felt that there was a mistake in the 2015 Development Agreement which nobody had caught, that the 42' height was measured from the northeast corner.
Mr. Neiss put up a slide showing the downtown. Towards the upper left side, Elbow Bend Road and the Lutheran Retreat Center can be seen. The Retreat is the highest point in the town center, approximately 42' higher than the respective site. The site is nestled between the Retreat, the Basha's and the Ace big boxes at the center top of the slide, and the 100 Easy Street building where the Post Office is located at the bottom center. There is approximately a 6' drop from Elbow Bend to the site, so the curb line is 6' higher than the curb line along Easy Street. But when looking at downtown areas throughout the desert southwest, one looks at the average curb height. The average curb height occurred at the northeast corner, which is why that was used as a reference.
Mr. Van Allen said Mr. Gabriele's document has two elevations, the lowest to the highest. The delta between the two is 52'. His issue was that the difference between the highest and the lowest was 6'-8'. If approved as written, from the left side, he would be looking at a 60' tall building. Mr. Gabriele responded that the building would have also been at that height at that point with the prior approval. They used all the reference points, and are just asking for an additional 4'. Mr. Van Allen said he was with the applicants 100% in wanting to be very specific in this agreement so there are no gray areas in the future.
Mayor Peterson clarified that when he, Mr. Van Allen and Mr. Neiss spoke the day before, they added up the numbers, as opposed to the opticals. Mr. Van Allen agreed they just used numbers. He assumed the building would be beautiful, with the terraces and all, but it would still be close to 60' high. He asked if the elevators would have boxes on the roof, as is usually the case, stating that would make the building 66' high. Mr. Gabriele explained that was one of the reasons they needed the 6' parapets on top of the 52' of livable space, so that additional height won't be seen. "Gary and I worked very hard on the Development Agreement exactly for the reasons you said. There's nobody hiding anything here." Mr. Van Allen agreed there was nothing hidden, and said that was his problem.
https://vimeo.com/231872472
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list.
Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.
Mayor Peterson clarified that when he, Mr. Van Allen and Mr. Neiss spoke the day before, they added up the numbers, as opposed to the opticals. Mr. Van Allen agreed they just used numbers. He assumed the building would be beautiful, with the terraces and all, but it would still be close to 60' high. He asked if the elevators would have boxes on the roof, as is usually the case, stating that would make the building 66' high. Mr. Gabriele explained that was one of the reasons they needed the 6' parapets on top of the 52' of livable space, so that additional height won't be seen. "Gary and I worked very hard on the Development Agreement exactly for the reasons you said. There's nobody hiding anything here." Mr. Van Allen agreed there was nothing hidden, and said that was his problem.
https://vimeo.com/231872472
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list.
Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.