Carefree Truth
Issue #674, July 24, 2018
(Lyn's note: All of the exchanges in this section were with a resident of Cave Creek who accompanied Councilman Mike Farrar to the meeting, sat with him in the front row, and left with him. Mr. Farrar's associate believed that Carefree residents and business should be left on Cave Creek Water because he felt it would harm Cave Creek if they were to leave the CCW system. Mr. Farrar sat in silence.)
Q: What is the impact on Cave Creek?
A: Tony Geiger- They have been given so much free advice. A man currently on the Cave Creek Water Advisory Committee (WAC) is a retired full professor of economics and a sustainability scientist. He sells his consulting services all over the country to utility regulators. He gave Cave Creek a $30,000 document to use to develop a RFP. "They have been given so much help that they haven't wanted. This is not punitive, but at what point do you say, 'We have to take care of our town?' They've made their choices."
Q: The sustainability battle will be on Cave Creek Road. Cave Creek will feel harmed. There will be a legal battle. They will establish harm to themselves.
A: Tony Geiger- "Stop right there." Mr. Geiger has sat in on the meetings with the Cave Creek town attorney and with the consulting attorney they hired to help them with this, and he has read the contracts they have written for water. He is not an attorney, but in his career he has read through hundreds of contracts written for water. He asked if the man asking the questions is an attorney, and he answered no. Mr. Geiger asked if he had heard the term "force majeure", which is very common boiler plate language covering "acts of God" or something blowing up. The man said he did know the term. Mr. Geiger noted that Cave Creek doesn't have that in their contracts. They are so poorly written that Cave Creek is exposed. Carefree has one of those contracts. This goes to arbitration. They can't make it a legal battle, but if they try, Carefree will simply sue them for the attorney's cost. "This thing is lined out. They wrote us one of those sweetheart contracts."
Q: "Am I the only one here from Cave Creek? I sincerely wish Cave Creek wasn't being bashed like this and I hope my fellow citizens never hear this."
A: Mayor Peterson- There were 5 Cave Creek Council members at the previous meeting, and the Mayor said the same things.
Q: He was in China on business at the time of the June meeting. Cave Creek couldn't argue their side and come to a compromise. They could just do what they were told.
A: Mayor Peterson- Carefree sat down and tried to work it out with Cave Creek. Carefree took them through it. Carefree "got flip answers back". He asked if they were telling Carefree to take these accounts and they said, "Take them".
Q: He lives in the northwest part of Cave Creek. He asked if the Mayor knew what happens to a house that doesn't have water and asked if the Mayor is a water hauler. There is not much water in his well. Some of his neighbors are water haulers. When they were cut off by Phoenix, they had no water source because the Arizona Corporation Commission would only allow a nearby water station to service Desert Hills and New River. He and his neighbors wanted to hook up to the Cahava Springs water line. They were willing to tax themselves to run a pipe from the main to their houses. This would be costly since they have large lots. Because they looked at doing this, he has done a lot of research into the Cave Creek Water system. He read the regional contract, the IGA, Cave Creek's 10 Year Plan and Carefree's 10 Year Plan. He suggested that Carefree immediately interconnect with Scottsdale's line on 56th Street to get redundancy, saying it would probably cost less than the engineering study.
A: Mayor Peterson- There is no way of isolating the 526 Carefree homes that are serviced by Cave Creek Water (CCW). That would interconnect into the entire system.
Q: Put in a bolt and a valve. If there were an emergency and Cave Creek couldn't supply water to the area, at least there is another connection. That this is a divorce and in Cave Creek's side of the prenuptial agreement, Carefree holds all the cards. "You can do whatever you want."
A: Tony Geiger- "That's how Cave Creek operates." He didn't know how long the Cave Creek man has lived there or how long he'd been involved, but Mr. Geiger has spent 5 years digging. He has been through this with Mayor Vince Francia, Mayor Ernie Bunch, 4 Town managers, and all the Council members who voted to buy all the utilities. He called the lack of concern, the arrogance and the ignorance "stunning".
Q: "Call me some more names."
A: Tony Geiger- "I'm not saying you. I'm saying the guys who are making the decisions. I had Council members who admitted to me, flat out admitted, in a group of people, 'I never read the packet.' They had all the documents. 'I just did what they told me to do.' "
A: Mayor Peterson- "We are getting way off base."
Q: "Please don't generate this kind of animosity between our two communities. Find a way to do this. The last thing we need to do is drive a stake..."
A: Tony Geiger- "Wait an minute. Wait a minute. I've sat in too many meetings and have been turned down and seen professionals, I've watched Gary Smith, the PhD, be totally disrespected by the Mayor, by the Council members, as he offers up advice that he bills out at 300 bucks an hour, and they just laugh at him. So when you say that, that's not a statement that's grounded in reality. The reality is that Cave Creek has made it impossible to deal with them. It's a bad deal. It's a bad deal."
Q: "I'm not talking about the animosity between the 2 Town governments. I'm talking about my neighbors who want to come over here to Venues and drink a glass of wine and I'm talking about those from here who like to go to Harold's."
A: Mayor Peterson- "Let's to on. I think we've heard your point."
https://vimeo.com/279767303
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list.
Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.
Q: What is the impact on Cave Creek?
A: Tony Geiger- They have been given so much free advice. A man currently on the Cave Creek Water Advisory Committee (WAC) is a retired full professor of economics and a sustainability scientist. He sells his consulting services all over the country to utility regulators. He gave Cave Creek a $30,000 document to use to develop a RFP. "They have been given so much help that they haven't wanted. This is not punitive, but at what point do you say, 'We have to take care of our town?' They've made their choices."
Q: The sustainability battle will be on Cave Creek Road. Cave Creek will feel harmed. There will be a legal battle. They will establish harm to themselves.
A: Tony Geiger- "Stop right there." Mr. Geiger has sat in on the meetings with the Cave Creek town attorney and with the consulting attorney they hired to help them with this, and he has read the contracts they have written for water. He is not an attorney, but in his career he has read through hundreds of contracts written for water. He asked if the man asking the questions is an attorney, and he answered no. Mr. Geiger asked if he had heard the term "force majeure", which is very common boiler plate language covering "acts of God" or something blowing up. The man said he did know the term. Mr. Geiger noted that Cave Creek doesn't have that in their contracts. They are so poorly written that Cave Creek is exposed. Carefree has one of those contracts. This goes to arbitration. They can't make it a legal battle, but if they try, Carefree will simply sue them for the attorney's cost. "This thing is lined out. They wrote us one of those sweetheart contracts."
Q: "Am I the only one here from Cave Creek? I sincerely wish Cave Creek wasn't being bashed like this and I hope my fellow citizens never hear this."
A: Mayor Peterson- There were 5 Cave Creek Council members at the previous meeting, and the Mayor said the same things.
Q: He was in China on business at the time of the June meeting. Cave Creek couldn't argue their side and come to a compromise. They could just do what they were told.
A: Mayor Peterson- Carefree sat down and tried to work it out with Cave Creek. Carefree took them through it. Carefree "got flip answers back". He asked if they were telling Carefree to take these accounts and they said, "Take them".
Q: He lives in the northwest part of Cave Creek. He asked if the Mayor knew what happens to a house that doesn't have water and asked if the Mayor is a water hauler. There is not much water in his well. Some of his neighbors are water haulers. When they were cut off by Phoenix, they had no water source because the Arizona Corporation Commission would only allow a nearby water station to service Desert Hills and New River. He and his neighbors wanted to hook up to the Cahava Springs water line. They were willing to tax themselves to run a pipe from the main to their houses. This would be costly since they have large lots. Because they looked at doing this, he has done a lot of research into the Cave Creek Water system. He read the regional contract, the IGA, Cave Creek's 10 Year Plan and Carefree's 10 Year Plan. He suggested that Carefree immediately interconnect with Scottsdale's line on 56th Street to get redundancy, saying it would probably cost less than the engineering study.
A: Mayor Peterson- There is no way of isolating the 526 Carefree homes that are serviced by Cave Creek Water (CCW). That would interconnect into the entire system.
Q: Put in a bolt and a valve. If there were an emergency and Cave Creek couldn't supply water to the area, at least there is another connection. That this is a divorce and in Cave Creek's side of the prenuptial agreement, Carefree holds all the cards. "You can do whatever you want."
A: Tony Geiger- "That's how Cave Creek operates." He didn't know how long the Cave Creek man has lived there or how long he'd been involved, but Mr. Geiger has spent 5 years digging. He has been through this with Mayor Vince Francia, Mayor Ernie Bunch, 4 Town managers, and all the Council members who voted to buy all the utilities. He called the lack of concern, the arrogance and the ignorance "stunning".
Q: "Call me some more names."
A: Tony Geiger- "I'm not saying you. I'm saying the guys who are making the decisions. I had Council members who admitted to me, flat out admitted, in a group of people, 'I never read the packet.' They had all the documents. 'I just did what they told me to do.' "
A: Mayor Peterson- "We are getting way off base."
Q: "Please don't generate this kind of animosity between our two communities. Find a way to do this. The last thing we need to do is drive a stake..."
A: Tony Geiger- "Wait an minute. Wait a minute. I've sat in too many meetings and have been turned down and seen professionals, I've watched Gary Smith, the PhD, be totally disrespected by the Mayor, by the Council members, as he offers up advice that he bills out at 300 bucks an hour, and they just laugh at him. So when you say that, that's not a statement that's grounded in reality. The reality is that Cave Creek has made it impossible to deal with them. It's a bad deal. It's a bad deal."
Q: "I'm not talking about the animosity between the 2 Town governments. I'm talking about my neighbors who want to come over here to Venues and drink a glass of wine and I'm talking about those from here who like to go to Harold's."
A: Mayor Peterson- "Let's to on. I think we've heard your point."
https://vimeo.com/279767303
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list.
Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.