"Thomas Jefferson said a democracy is dependent on an informed citizenry. I don't care whether it sounds corny or not. It's the truth." -Jim Lehrer
Carefree Truth
Issue #1088, June 17, 2024
The following are several comments posed during the Carefree Town Council meeting on 6/4/24 concerning the N.W. corner of Carefree Highway and Tom Darlington Drive. Numerous citizens spoke for 54 minutes. Herbert picked four of them to review.
We request that you keep in mind that applause, or lack thereof, is a proven method of intimidation to others who might wish to speak for or against an issue, but are silenced due to the mob mentality of the audience and a reticence to be ridiculed or shunned. This method has been employed in many meetings, including booing and making faces at those speakers with whom they do not agree. This sort of childish behavior should have no place in Carefree Council meetings and should not be tolerated.
“You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.”
-Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Lyn & Herbert Hitchon
We request that you keep in mind that applause, or lack thereof, is a proven method of intimidation to others who might wish to speak for or against an issue, but are silenced due to the mob mentality of the audience and a reticence to be ridiculed or shunned. This method has been employed in many meetings, including booing and making faces at those speakers with whom they do not agree. This sort of childish behavior should have no place in Carefree Council meetings and should not be tolerated.
“You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.”
-Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Lyn & Herbert Hitchon
Maureen Benedetto
Ms. Benedetto said Mayor John Crane had stated that the applicant should be the developer not the town. She noted that Councilman Mike Johnson had said he walked the property with the owner, John Lassen, and that she had never seen Mr. Lassen at a Council meeting. (Property owners do not generally attend Council meetings.) She said that all the residents want a say in how that (private) property is to be developed.
Ms. Benedetto said Mayor John Crane had stated that the applicant should be the developer not the town. She noted that Councilman Mike Johnson had said he walked the property with the owner, John Lassen, and that she had never seen Mr. Lassen at a Council meeting. (Property owners do not generally attend Council meetings.) She said that all the residents want a say in how that (private) property is to be developed.
Ms. Benedetto held up a sheet of paper and waved it around that contained multiple pictures and said she was confused. She asked Councilman Johnson if this was the vision for a proposed resort. He responded that the page she held up was from a developer who had been rebuked for distributing that to the neighbors. He clarified that the idea was for a casita type resort.
She added, "Vince (Councilman and current Council candidate D'Aliesio), I do not want you to be the guy to do a lot of development", saying, "and you gave us the Hampton Inn, which not a boutique hotel." (The entire Council, approved the Hampton Inn by Hilton, which is busy and brings in significant tax revenue, which helps keep a property tax at bay). "You made some comments in a blog on the west side." (Councilman D'Aliesio sent in his background info and his positions to Carefree Truth, the blog on the "west side" being referenced. Any candidate can send their info to Carefree Truth and it will be published. As it happens, Councilman D'Aliesio is the only one who has done so to date.) Councilman D'Aliesio asked her if that was a threat and said he felt she was singling him out for criticism. He pointed out to her that she had gone off topic speaking about blogs and the Hampton Inn, which were not on the agenda item about which she came to the podium to speak. The topic on the agenda was the N.W. corner designation in the proposed General Plan update. Ms. Benedetto responded that it wasn't that they didn't want development, they just wanted input.
Ms. Benedetto said Mayor John Crane had stated that the applicant should be the developer not the town. She noted that Councilman Mike Johnson had said he walked the property with the owner, John Lassen, and that she had never seen Mr. Lassen at a Council meeting. (Property owners do not generally attend Council meetings.) She said that all the residents want a say in how that (private) property is to be developed.
Ms. Benedetto held up a sheet of paper and waved it around that contained multiple pictures and said she was confused. She asked Councilman Johnson if this was the vision for a proposed resort. He responded that the page she held up was from a developer who had been rebuked for distributing that to the neighbors. He clarified that the idea was for a casita type resort.
She added, "Vince (Councilman and current Council candidate D'Aliesio), I do not want you to be the guy to do a lot of development", saying, "and you gave us the Hampton Inn, which not a boutique hotel." (The entire Council, approved the Hampton Inn by Hilton, which is busy and brings in significant tax revenue, which helps keep a property tax at bay). "You made some comments in a blog on the west side." (Councilman D'Aliesio sent in his background info and his positions to Carefree Truth, the blog on the "west side" being referenced. Any candidate can send their info to Carefree Truth and it will be published. As it happens, Councilman D'Aliesio is the only one who has done so to date.) Councilman D'Aliesio asked her if that was a threat and said he felt she was singling him out for criticism. He pointed out to her that she had gone off topic speaking about blogs and the Hampton Inn, which were not on the agenda item about which she came to the podium to speak. The topic on the agenda was the N.W. corner designation in the proposed General Plan update. Ms. Benedetto responded that it wasn't that they didn't want development, they just wanted input.
Diane Roth
Diane Roth, a candidate for the Carefree Town Council, began by asking, "Why the fight. "Why all the acrimony? It's ridiculous. I think we all want the same thing, a healthy town physically and frankly mentally. Enough already. We are too small a town for all this division. There is no east/west, green shirts vs. brown shirts (the brown shirts was a reference to the Nazis), whatever. (Below are some Green Shirts at a council meeting. This was in protest to the proposed automatic aid for fire protection prior to that election. 80% of Carefree citizens voted against a property tax that was to be used exclusively for fire protection using automatic aid, and the Green Shirts have since been using that figure to say that 80% of the Carefree citizens agree with them on every issue they espouse, and that they alone represent 80% of the citizens of Carefree.)
Close-up detail of Diane Roth at that council meeting in her green shirt
We are a community of 3600. This is ridiculous to listen to some of the things people say and do. The majority of residents want to be included in the Town's big decisions. After all, we are the ones who vote for you. We are the ones who put you on the Council, so to ignore us, you do it at your own peril." (Another threat, this from a candidate for Council who wants to be elected.) "So be with us or against us. We are not a minority." (The Town of Carefree's website states, Between 2019 and 2020 the population of Carefree, AZ grew from 3,811 to 3,863, a 1.36% increase.) (These people do not represent the majority of citizens of Carefree. Maybe 1.9%, although as she stated, they come to the Council meetings month after month.) "So listen to us. There is nothing that you are going to gain by ignoring us and treating us like a minority of vocal nitwits, which we're not." "We know that the N.E. corner is the money corner. Why are you not focusing on that? The N.W. corner is not the money corner."
"Do you want your legacy to be that you've divided the town; that you've belittled the majority, or do you want your legacy to be that you've listened to the people in this town?" "Take the SPA out. You have nothing to lose by doing that." (There are actually lawsuits being prepared against the Town and certain individuals if the SPA is removed.) "You have a legacy of unification to gain, so think about it. Thank you."
We are a community of 3600. This is ridiculous to listen to some of the things people say and do. The majority of residents want to be included in the Town's big decisions. After all, we are the ones who vote for you. We are the ones who put you on the Council, so to ignore us, you do it at your own peril." (Another threat, this from a candidate for Council who wants to be elected.) "So be with us or against us. We are not a minority." (The Town of Carefree's website states, Between 2019 and 2020 the population of Carefree, AZ grew from 3,811 to 3,863, a 1.36% increase.) (These people do not represent the majority of citizens of Carefree. Maybe 1.9%, although as she stated, they come to the Council meetings month after month.) "So listen to us. There is nothing that you are going to gain by ignoring us and treating us like a minority of vocal nitwits, which we're not." "We know that the N.E. corner is the money corner. Why are you not focusing on that? The N.W. corner is not the money corner."
"Do you want your legacy to be that you've divided the town; that you've belittled the majority, or do you want your legacy to be that you've listened to the people in this town?" "Take the SPA out. You have nothing to lose by doing that." (There are actually lawsuits being prepared against the Town and certain individuals if the SPA is removed.) "You have a legacy of unification to gain, so think about it. Thank you."
John Traynor
John Traynor refused to give out his physical address because he felt that the requirement to do so during live-streaming posed a danger to those speaking. He claimed he was not opposed to the right kind of development when it's vetted in public, with full disclosure and respect to the zoning. (All committee, P&Z, and council meetings are public and are announced, so are vetted by any of the public who wish to attend, as Mr. Traynor is well aware, having served on one of the committees, and having attended others.) "We've heard from an expert who said our finances are sound until at least 2032. Nobody here is stupid enough to think that we would wait until 2032 to address an important issue. He did the work. Why won't we believe him?"
(Mr. Traynor, however, does not say how this issue should be addressed.)
"It's incomprehensible why several of you would wish to oppose the will of residents that has been expressed repeatedly since the General Plan process commenced many months ago. Instead of seeking unity, some of you appear to encourage division. So,why is that necessary?"
(Division is a goal that Mr.Traynor has sought to achieve for many years, through the use of fear and lies, so why has that been necessary? Back in 2008, Mr. Traynor claimed, on the public record, that Carefree would be bankrupt within 2 years. We don't think Mr. Traynor should be making financial statements. His professional track record was less than stellar, as well as his assertion about Carefree's financial positions, both in 2008 and in 2024.)
"The mayor and council are elected by residents. Only residents can fire them by routine elections or recall. Staff, on the other hand, cannot be fired by residents; that's the mayor's job." "The mayor is the CEO of the town, the boss, if you will." He said that we do not have a town manager form of government. No elected official should ever be intimidated of threatened by any staff member, or told who they can work with or talk to; no staff member has that right. It is an abhorrent overreach of authority to instruct another employee to monitor elected officials email conversations, and should never be tolerated. "Public records may be requested when needed without cold war snooping in Carefree. Somewhere over the past decade, residents have lost control over how this town is run." He felt that residents needed to regain control of the town, as the forefathers intended.
(When the town was incorporated, the agreed upon form of government was an elected council. Our residents elect representatives to be informed and to make important decisions based on that knowledge Carefree has had excellent management by both the elected and appointed officials, and well above average, dedicated staff members.
America is a republic, not a democracy. Democracies tend to disintegrate into chaos when everyone has an equal say on how places should be run. Yes, public input should be taken into consideration, but the vast majority of Carefree residents, and the public in general everywhere, do not get tend to get involved in these decisions. Many everywhere, including in Carefree, do not even bother to vote. Mr. Traynor and his minority vocal group claim to represent the majority of Carefree residents. They do not. They are just the ones who regularly show up at council meetings and whine about how terrible the council and staff are.
Mr. Traynor, back in 2008, asserted on the public record, that the town would be bankrupt in 2 years. We do not think Mr. Traynor should be giving out financial advice. His professional history is less than stellar too. For his work history, see Carefree Truth Letters from Readers: 5/29/24 . At that time, in a 12 year period, he had only worked regularly for 2 years. Nothing about that seems to have changed.)
(Mr. Traynor, however, does not say how this issue should be addressed.)
"It's incomprehensible why several of you would wish to oppose the will of residents that has been expressed repeatedly since the General Plan process commenced many months ago. Instead of seeking unity, some of you appear to encourage division. So,why is that necessary?"
(Division is a goal that Mr.Traynor has sought to achieve for many years, through the use of fear and lies, so why has that been necessary? Back in 2008, Mr. Traynor claimed, on the public record, that Carefree would be bankrupt within 2 years. We don't think Mr. Traynor should be making financial statements. His professional track record was less than stellar, as well as his assertion about Carefree's financial positions, both in 2008 and in 2024.)
"The mayor and council are elected by residents. Only residents can fire them by routine elections or recall. Staff, on the other hand, cannot be fired by residents; that's the mayor's job." "The mayor is the CEO of the town, the boss, if you will." He said that we do not have a town manager form of government. No elected official should ever be intimidated of threatened by any staff member, or told who they can work with or talk to; no staff member has that right. It is an abhorrent overreach of authority to instruct another employee to monitor elected officials email conversations, and should never be tolerated. "Public records may be requested when needed without cold war snooping in Carefree. Somewhere over the past decade, residents have lost control over how this town is run." He felt that residents needed to regain control of the town, as the forefathers intended.
(When the town was incorporated, the agreed upon form of government was an elected council. Our residents elect representatives to be informed and to make important decisions based on that knowledge Carefree has had excellent management by both the elected and appointed officials, and well above average, dedicated staff members.
America is a republic, not a democracy. Democracies tend to disintegrate into chaos when everyone has an equal say on how places should be run. Yes, public input should be taken into consideration, but the vast majority of Carefree residents, and the public in general everywhere, do not get tend to get involved in these decisions. Many everywhere, including in Carefree, do not even bother to vote. Mr. Traynor and his minority vocal group claim to represent the majority of Carefree residents. They do not. They are just the ones who regularly show up at council meetings and whine about how terrible the council and staff are.
Mr. Traynor, back in 2008, asserted on the public record, that the town would be bankrupt in 2 years. We do not think Mr. Traynor should be giving out financial advice. His professional history is less than stellar too. For his work history, see Carefree Truth Letters from Readers: 5/29/24 . At that time, in a 12 year period, he had only worked regularly for 2 years. Nothing about that seems to have changed.)
Rick Kasmiskie
"I want to thank everyone, the people in the room, and the people who have been involved forever. This has been a very engaging process, as you had said (pointing to the council members), and that's exciting. I am here to say that all of those inputs had been boiled down to a Special Planning Area. Not a resort in a general sense, or commercial in a general sense, but a Special Planning Area. And I want to see it kept in a commercial sense, not a residential, because long term, I think that's good for Carefree. Regardless of the timing on this, it's going to take a long time for any of this to happen. I believe that there will be lots and lots of opportunities for people to be engaged, and it's clear that a lot of the community is engaged.
"One other thing I want to state is that we should not misconstrue a very vocal minority. Remember there are 3700 residents, that those very vocal minority who say, 'we should not do this, we haven't been listened to', I agree they might feel that way. There are a whole bunch of other people who have not been involved because they assumed this was a part of it, and they want to be able to vote on it with it in. If you keep it in, it has extreme extreme restrictions to keep it the way it was envisioned for Carefree, and it gives people the chance to vote on it, the 3700 people to vote, not just a very vocal minority. Thank you."
(I bolded words that Mr. Kasmiskie emphasized in his speech.)
"One other thing I want to state is that we should not misconstrue a very vocal minority. Remember there are 3700 residents, that those very vocal minority who say, 'we should not do this, we haven't been listened to', I agree they might feel that way. There are a whole bunch of other people who have not been involved because they assumed this was a part of it, and they want to be able to vote on it with it in. If you keep it in, it has extreme extreme restrictions to keep it the way it was envisioned for Carefree, and it gives people the chance to vote on it, the 3700 people to vote, not just a very vocal minority. Thank you."
(I bolded words that Mr. Kasmiskie emphasized in his speech.)
Prepared by Carefree Truth
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Copyrighted
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list. Please support our Carefree merchants.