"Thomas Jefferson said a democracy is dependent on an informed citizenry. I don't care whether it sounds corny or not. It's the truth." -Jim Lehrer
Cave Creek Mayor Bob Morris and Councilman Tom McGuire are good friends and I’m looking forward to continuing to work with them. Our friendships are great for both towns.
Proud Carefree Councilman and candidate Vince D'Aliesio
The problem with drunks and the insane is that they don't know they are drunk and/or insane. The bigger problem is you can't logically debate with them either.
These people seem to enjoy riding the tsunami of disaster; "Let's move out of California and see if we can't destroy a few other states! HELL, we're really good at it, why stop now?" They should call themselves "Newsom''s nitwits" or "Gavin's galivanters".
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein is given credit for saying this. He never thought people would do it intentionally.
Bob Jenkins
I can’t imagine any council member would put up with that. Seems like John Crane may not represent 80% of Carefree residents either. Have a great 4th!
Rich Christopher
(Lyn's note: Rich is referencing John Traynor's statement in both his blog and during Call to the Public at the July Council meeting that he never claimed to represent 80% of the Carefree residents, which is not true.)
Well, here we go again. The most recent issue of the subject matter newsletter attempts to justify several recent Town Council decisions such as the Hampton Hotel and the Boulders water storage facility. The newsletter also states that the Hitchons’ voted against the property tax, in part because they were treated kindly by Rural Metro at some point in the past. That may be true but certainly not relevant to why the tax was voted down.
The Hitchons’ are entitled to their opinion, even if the basis for those opinions at times stretch the credibility of the underlying historical facts.
What they are not entitled to is the continuing disparaging comments repeatedly found in their newsletter about individuals, (they maintain Groups), who disagree with their own view of reality. Those who hold opposing viewpoints have been characterized as green shirts, seals, dissidents, and now cockroaches.
Obviously, in the mind of the Hitchons, those not part of their “group think” scurry around like insects emerging only after dark, etc.
Whether the Hitchons’ realize it or not, by their comments, they are demonstrating to the Carefree community that they are limited in perspective as to the needs of the Carefree community and the fact that the majority of the carefree residents are tired of the finger pointing, the character assassinations and the stretching of the truth in the name of journalism. .
In a response to a previous “Carefree Truth” newsletter I suggested to Ms. Hitchon that she and her newsletter could provide a valuable community service by reporting on Town activity/decisions in an objective manner thus keeping the residents informed and engaged. But as this latest newsletter demonstrates, the Hitchon’s would rather engage in name calling and vilification.
I will also point out that by advocating on behalf of a select slate of Town Council candidates, the newsletter is serving as a de facto campaign literature. That in turn begs the question of whether the candidates supported by the Hitchons, at least tacitly, support the tactics and divisive rhetoric offered up by the HItchons. If that were to be the case, it should cast doubt in the minds of the Voters as to whether those are the individuals we wish to serve as our elected representatives.
One final word. I think most of the residents who have, in the past read some of my comments will agree that I have taken great pains to not “take sides” but to suggest that open dialogue without personalization is the best approach to compromise and planning regarding the future of Carefree. Instead, Mr.Hitchon via the newsletter, has declared that dissidents, (those who hold opposing opinions are “cockroaches scattering from the light”, (his words).
As I stated in a previous communique to Ms. Hitchon, she and now her husband would do well to employ better judgement in referring in derogatory fashion to those who hold different opinions. The current pathway of derision and personal attacks will only lessen their influence and make their newsletter less and less relevant to all but their most likeminded readers.
John Nimsky
(Lyn's note: I noticed that of those copied on this email, two are candidates supported by John Traynor (the cockroach referenced in Herbert's editorial), and another one is a long time agitator. I'm not sure why you included John Crane, who seems to be trying hard to walk a fine line, not an easy thing to do.
However, Herbert's editorial was factual and it is those you copied, and their compatriots, who continue to bring up the Hampton Inn, with repeated false accusations against the Town. This is why Herbert felt the need to educate those who might not have been engaged at the time or might not have lived here then. You should know better, John. Shame on you.)
Ms. Hitchon, if you are unable to make a point without name calling then you don’t have a point worthy of anyone's consideration. And who is to say I am the “long time agitator” versus you Ms. Hitchon - it is simply a matter of perspective. People lament the divisiveness in Carefree yet many of those same people (and politicians) thank you for all you do for them without ever stopping to consider whether your Carefree Truth actually nurtures and thrives on the divisiveness.
I find Mr. Nimsky to be thoughtful, intelligent and always kind. He and I have disagreed on things before but it only furthers my respect for him. He always brings a reasoned opinion to the conversation, which I value.
Have you researched all the candidates you are endorsing thoroughly? Your frequently infer anyone coming from California is less than a human being. In fact, in the last election you criticized Mr. Vukotic’s wife for still working in California (which you had to retract because it was false). Ms. Colleen Scurti, who you have endorsed, was a long time California resident and still works for a real estate company and has active listings in California as well as in Arizona. I don’t think any less of Ms. Scurti for her association with California. One of my concerns with Ms. Scurti is that she has been endorsed by Carefree Truth.
Stephanie Barbour
(Lyn's note: Stephanie, you have been a long time agitator, starting with trying to keep over 1050 Carefree residents plus numerous businesses, including any that will be going onto the NE corner, off of Carefree Water, thereby holding up the NE corner development for several years with frivolous lawsuits, and costing Carefree hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and lost sales tax revenue.
We do not think people from California are "less than human", and in fact we have numerous friends who live in California,and some who have moved here from California. The point we were making is that many of those who are saying the Hampton Inn was done in a sneaky way lived in California during the extended time period that the design for the Hampton Inn was underway, and are not knowledgeable about that process, even though they profess to be. What Herbert wrote were the facts. We were here throughout that process, attending and reporting on all those meetings.
We already know who your group (and yes, you are part of a group and in fact were one of the founders) is voting for and why. Others who don't see eye to eye with your group are voting for the other three candidates. Your small Boulders group, which started this division in Carefree over the water issue and has since branched out to some people in other HOAs, launched 13 lawsuits and appeals against Carefree, and lost every one of them, but still cost the Town almost $1.5 million in legal fees that could have been put to much better use. As Bob Jenkins said in a letter towards the beginning of this week's Letters, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein is given credit for saying this. He never thought people would do it intentionally.)
Lyn, I copied the people who were on your original June 6th communication. Send me your entire distribution list and I will copy them as well.. I would welcome the opportunity to present my viewpoint to your entire readership.
Concerning John Crane, I have conversations with several individuals including John Crane about my views regarding the future of Carefree. He and I do not agree on some and agree on others. That being said, I respect and appreciate his openness to listen. That has been my experience with several individuals, some of whom are not necessarily aligned with my world view. But that's the point, at least my point. I can walk away from those conversations without vilifying those individuals and or at a another time sharing a cup of coffee, etc. I can walk away and the next time I run into them, can ask how they are doing, inquire about their families, or invite them for a beer or whatever. Essentially that is what a community should be, to find common ground on identifying and advocating for what is best for all, not for some. How we get there might be a matter for debate, not a pathway for greater divisiveness.
You insinuate, (not the first time) that I am part of some group, but that would be in error. As I have said before, I am in no one’s camp. I think for myself, (Maybe I should start a group, lol). Who agrees or doesn’t agree with me does not impact what I say or believe in. And to be clear, your husband comment re: cockroaches was in the plural not singular, irrespective of intent. See below
Perhaps my videos are historically like shining a light that makes the cockroaches scatter.( just which cockroaches was he thinking of)?
Bottom line is that I am just fine in others disagreeing with me. Without differences of opinion the world would be a very boring place. What I will not tolerate and will always speak out against is labeling people based on their beliefs. Or the intimidation of individuals by others who happen not to share the same opinion.
John Nimsky
(Lyn's note: Stephanie Barbour did not receive the original June 6th email editorial. She asked to be removed from our email list several years ago. Diane Roth and Lon Johnson are also not on our email list. I assume the editorial was sent to them by others or that they visited our website, where everything we put out is posted all the way back to 2009, when the website was started. But our actual readers will get to see all of your emails to us, and my responses, as everything is being included in Letters from Readers.
As I said in my first response to you in this chain, John Crane is trying his best to walk a very fine and difficult line. John and I have been good friends since 1997. I do not envy him his position at this juncture.
We have friends who disagree with us on both local, state, and national politics, but we are still friends. I'm pretty sure that no one in the group we are discussing who disagrees with us on local politics will be inviting us out for coffee or a beer.
As far as the cockroaches comment, there have been several of them over the years, hence the plural, but John Traynor has always been a constant presence in all of those cockroaches. And the intimidation factor of the current angry group to which Ms. Barbour and Mr. Traynor now belong, is less than subtle. It has included booing and rudely interrupting speakers at the podium with whom they disagree, as well as the enthusiastic clapping for those with whom they do agree. The third Council candidate supported by Mr. Traynor, along with Mr. Johnson and Ms. Roth, is Ms. Aziz, a far left political activist, who proudly refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Copyrighted
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list. Please support our Carefree merchants.
Proud Carefree Councilman and candidate Vince D'Aliesio
The problem with drunks and the insane is that they don't know they are drunk and/or insane. The bigger problem is you can't logically debate with them either.
These people seem to enjoy riding the tsunami of disaster; "Let's move out of California and see if we can't destroy a few other states! HELL, we're really good at it, why stop now?" They should call themselves "Newsom''s nitwits" or "Gavin's galivanters".
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein is given credit for saying this. He never thought people would do it intentionally.
Bob Jenkins
I can’t imagine any council member would put up with that. Seems like John Crane may not represent 80% of Carefree residents either. Have a great 4th!
Rich Christopher
(Lyn's note: Rich is referencing John Traynor's statement in both his blog and during Call to the Public at the July Council meeting that he never claimed to represent 80% of the Carefree residents, which is not true.)
Well, here we go again. The most recent issue of the subject matter newsletter attempts to justify several recent Town Council decisions such as the Hampton Hotel and the Boulders water storage facility. The newsletter also states that the Hitchons’ voted against the property tax, in part because they were treated kindly by Rural Metro at some point in the past. That may be true but certainly not relevant to why the tax was voted down.
The Hitchons’ are entitled to their opinion, even if the basis for those opinions at times stretch the credibility of the underlying historical facts.
What they are not entitled to is the continuing disparaging comments repeatedly found in their newsletter about individuals, (they maintain Groups), who disagree with their own view of reality. Those who hold opposing viewpoints have been characterized as green shirts, seals, dissidents, and now cockroaches.
Obviously, in the mind of the Hitchons, those not part of their “group think” scurry around like insects emerging only after dark, etc.
Whether the Hitchons’ realize it or not, by their comments, they are demonstrating to the Carefree community that they are limited in perspective as to the needs of the Carefree community and the fact that the majority of the carefree residents are tired of the finger pointing, the character assassinations and the stretching of the truth in the name of journalism. .
In a response to a previous “Carefree Truth” newsletter I suggested to Ms. Hitchon that she and her newsletter could provide a valuable community service by reporting on Town activity/decisions in an objective manner thus keeping the residents informed and engaged. But as this latest newsletter demonstrates, the Hitchon’s would rather engage in name calling and vilification.
I will also point out that by advocating on behalf of a select slate of Town Council candidates, the newsletter is serving as a de facto campaign literature. That in turn begs the question of whether the candidates supported by the Hitchons, at least tacitly, support the tactics and divisive rhetoric offered up by the HItchons. If that were to be the case, it should cast doubt in the minds of the Voters as to whether those are the individuals we wish to serve as our elected representatives.
One final word. I think most of the residents who have, in the past read some of my comments will agree that I have taken great pains to not “take sides” but to suggest that open dialogue without personalization is the best approach to compromise and planning regarding the future of Carefree. Instead, Mr.Hitchon via the newsletter, has declared that dissidents, (those who hold opposing opinions are “cockroaches scattering from the light”, (his words).
As I stated in a previous communique to Ms. Hitchon, she and now her husband would do well to employ better judgement in referring in derogatory fashion to those who hold different opinions. The current pathway of derision and personal attacks will only lessen their influence and make their newsletter less and less relevant to all but their most likeminded readers.
John Nimsky
(Lyn's note: I noticed that of those copied on this email, two are candidates supported by John Traynor (the cockroach referenced in Herbert's editorial), and another one is a long time agitator. I'm not sure why you included John Crane, who seems to be trying hard to walk a fine line, not an easy thing to do.
However, Herbert's editorial was factual and it is those you copied, and their compatriots, who continue to bring up the Hampton Inn, with repeated false accusations against the Town. This is why Herbert felt the need to educate those who might not have been engaged at the time or might not have lived here then. You should know better, John. Shame on you.)
Ms. Hitchon, if you are unable to make a point without name calling then you don’t have a point worthy of anyone's consideration. And who is to say I am the “long time agitator” versus you Ms. Hitchon - it is simply a matter of perspective. People lament the divisiveness in Carefree yet many of those same people (and politicians) thank you for all you do for them without ever stopping to consider whether your Carefree Truth actually nurtures and thrives on the divisiveness.
I find Mr. Nimsky to be thoughtful, intelligent and always kind. He and I have disagreed on things before but it only furthers my respect for him. He always brings a reasoned opinion to the conversation, which I value.
Have you researched all the candidates you are endorsing thoroughly? Your frequently infer anyone coming from California is less than a human being. In fact, in the last election you criticized Mr. Vukotic’s wife for still working in California (which you had to retract because it was false). Ms. Colleen Scurti, who you have endorsed, was a long time California resident and still works for a real estate company and has active listings in California as well as in Arizona. I don’t think any less of Ms. Scurti for her association with California. One of my concerns with Ms. Scurti is that she has been endorsed by Carefree Truth.
Stephanie Barbour
(Lyn's note: Stephanie, you have been a long time agitator, starting with trying to keep over 1050 Carefree residents plus numerous businesses, including any that will be going onto the NE corner, off of Carefree Water, thereby holding up the NE corner development for several years with frivolous lawsuits, and costing Carefree hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and lost sales tax revenue.
We do not think people from California are "less than human", and in fact we have numerous friends who live in California,and some who have moved here from California. The point we were making is that many of those who are saying the Hampton Inn was done in a sneaky way lived in California during the extended time period that the design for the Hampton Inn was underway, and are not knowledgeable about that process, even though they profess to be. What Herbert wrote were the facts. We were here throughout that process, attending and reporting on all those meetings.
We already know who your group (and yes, you are part of a group and in fact were one of the founders) is voting for and why. Others who don't see eye to eye with your group are voting for the other three candidates. Your small Boulders group, which started this division in Carefree over the water issue and has since branched out to some people in other HOAs, launched 13 lawsuits and appeals against Carefree, and lost every one of them, but still cost the Town almost $1.5 million in legal fees that could have been put to much better use. As Bob Jenkins said in a letter towards the beginning of this week's Letters, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein is given credit for saying this. He never thought people would do it intentionally.)
Lyn, I copied the people who were on your original June 6th communication. Send me your entire distribution list and I will copy them as well.. I would welcome the opportunity to present my viewpoint to your entire readership.
Concerning John Crane, I have conversations with several individuals including John Crane about my views regarding the future of Carefree. He and I do not agree on some and agree on others. That being said, I respect and appreciate his openness to listen. That has been my experience with several individuals, some of whom are not necessarily aligned with my world view. But that's the point, at least my point. I can walk away from those conversations without vilifying those individuals and or at a another time sharing a cup of coffee, etc. I can walk away and the next time I run into them, can ask how they are doing, inquire about their families, or invite them for a beer or whatever. Essentially that is what a community should be, to find common ground on identifying and advocating for what is best for all, not for some. How we get there might be a matter for debate, not a pathway for greater divisiveness.
You insinuate, (not the first time) that I am part of some group, but that would be in error. As I have said before, I am in no one’s camp. I think for myself, (Maybe I should start a group, lol). Who agrees or doesn’t agree with me does not impact what I say or believe in. And to be clear, your husband comment re: cockroaches was in the plural not singular, irrespective of intent. See below
Perhaps my videos are historically like shining a light that makes the cockroaches scatter.( just which cockroaches was he thinking of)?
Bottom line is that I am just fine in others disagreeing with me. Without differences of opinion the world would be a very boring place. What I will not tolerate and will always speak out against is labeling people based on their beliefs. Or the intimidation of individuals by others who happen not to share the same opinion.
John Nimsky
(Lyn's note: Stephanie Barbour did not receive the original June 6th email editorial. She asked to be removed from our email list several years ago. Diane Roth and Lon Johnson are also not on our email list. I assume the editorial was sent to them by others or that they visited our website, where everything we put out is posted all the way back to 2009, when the website was started. But our actual readers will get to see all of your emails to us, and my responses, as everything is being included in Letters from Readers.
As I said in my first response to you in this chain, John Crane is trying his best to walk a very fine and difficult line. John and I have been good friends since 1997. I do not envy him his position at this juncture.
We have friends who disagree with us on both local, state, and national politics, but we are still friends. I'm pretty sure that no one in the group we are discussing who disagrees with us on local politics will be inviting us out for coffee or a beer.
As far as the cockroaches comment, there have been several of them over the years, hence the plural, but John Traynor has always been a constant presence in all of those cockroaches. And the intimidation factor of the current angry group to which Ms. Barbour and Mr. Traynor now belong, is less than subtle. It has included booing and rudely interrupting speakers at the podium with whom they disagree, as well as the enthusiastic clapping for those with whom they do agree. The third Council candidate supported by Mr. Traynor, along with Mr. Johnson and Ms. Roth, is Ms. Aziz, a far left political activist, who proudly refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Copyrighted
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list. Please support our Carefree merchants.