Carefree Truth
Issue #711, December 17, 2018
Mayor Les Peterson called on Brennan Ray, Empire's attorney, to address the comments and concerns voiced by residents in attendance. Mr. Ray apologized for being remiss in not noting the concessions made by the residents in Provence. He said getting to this point had been a collaborative process, with about 95% of the issues resolved.
Empire was willing to agree to some of the additional stipulations. They would accept a car wash location south of the wash, which would require a Special Use Permit (SUP). He said that it would not be located on the easternmost pad. They would also accept that the 8' high wall be included in the stipulations. Mayor Peterson asked if it would go all the way down to Carefree Highway. Mr. Ray said that it would, but they must maintain the flow coming through the property, so he was not sure how far south it could go. The flows cannot be blocked by a wall, but there could possibly be a break in the wall, and then it would continue south. That would be determined by the engineers.
The 9' finished floor differential is a guess that needs to allow for a 2' variance, so it would be between 7' and 11'. The elevations would be determined in part by the relocation of the wash, and the final elevations would be determined by the engineering study. This was agreed to in his conversations with Mike Johnson, the Provence HOA president. Mayor Peterson asked that they do their best to be at 9'.
The traffic study was conducted during school hours and lasted for 2 days, which is the typical time frame for traffic studies. The developer will comply with the Town's requirements for traffic lights.
The only real disagreement is the 24 hour ambulatory emergency care facility. Mr. Ray thought they had appropriately conveyed the request for that flexibility to allow the medical center through the Special Use Permit (SUP) process. Their request was not consistent with the Planning & Zoning Commission's (P&Z) stipulation to strictly prohibit the medical center. Mr. Ray reminded the Council that P&Z is only a recommending body. He asked "that it be left in the Council's capable hands".
Mayor Peterson asked if 8' high light poles made sense. Planning Director Stacey Bridge-Denzak replied that 16' poles are considered low. Gary Neiss added that if light pole heights are artificially reduced in commercial parking lots, more poles are required throughout the parking lot. Also, large delivery trucks need clearance, just like bridges have minimum clearances.
Councilman Vince D'Aliesio asked if it could be stipulated that the lights be turned off at a certain time. Mr. Neiss explained that the safety factor must be considered for employees coming out late, sometimes carrying money. Lighting is an important factor in creating safe centers where people will not congregate in the dark. They must be well lit at night. But there are better techniques today to light the surface and mitigate spillage than there were even 5, 6, or 7 years ago, that eliminate the ambient glow seen in the past. These techniques are specified in Carefree's Ordinances and will be implemented during the building permit process.
Mr. Ray assured those concerned that the lights would all be downward facing and shielded, including security lights on the buildings. Councilman Mike Krahe asked if Provence agreed with that. Patti Townsend, who had requested that the poles be a maximum of 8' in height, said no. She had spoken to numerous neighbors about the project, and lighting was the concern. Even if it doesn't shine into the backyards, it can still be seen. They see the lights at the high school. They can't see the stars when they are on. There are no street lights in their neighborhood for that reason. Follow Walmart's example and use 8' high poles.
Councilman Stephen Hatcher noted that all the trucks at Walmart make deliveries at the back of the store. He suggested using 16' poles on the truck routes and 8' poles in the rest of the parking lot as a reasonable compromise. Mr. Ray said he appreciated the discussion, but photometric plans look at foot candles and areas to light. Bring light poles down if you want to see a whole lot of poles. Higher shielded, downward facing poles minimize the intrusion. High school lights are anything but downward facing and shielded. The 24'-30' buildings will provide additional screening between the center and the neighborhood. The lights will be seen from the streets, showing it is an active and safe commercial center, but will not be intrusive in Provence.
Vice Mayor John Crane asked how high the poles are in the Lowe's center. Mr. Neiss replied that they are 16'. Mr. Hatcher suggested the lights in the upper triangle of the new center be 8' high, since delivery trucks would not be going there, or that they be motion activated. Mr. Ray responded that the lights can't be motion activated because people want to know they have safe and secure passage. Also, constant light is needed where the driveways intersect to facilitate safe movement. He said they would do everything possible to appropriately locate the lights so they don't intrude into the adjacent area, especially up there.
Dr. Krahe asked about the 3 fast food restaurants discussed at the P&Z meeting. Mr. Ray said P&Z did discuss 3 restaurant pads, with the other 2 drive-thru pads being something other than fast food restaurants. Mr. Neiss noted that he made the point to P&Z that a drive-thru is a drive-thru. If restaurants are limited, they will just go across the street to Cave Creek because that's what is dictated by the market. Carefree will still get the impact but not the sales tax revenue.
He pointed out that today, many people call quick serve restaurants like Panera Bread and Starbucks on their cell phones and pick up the food at the drive-thru, rather than going to the counter, ordering food, and sitting there to eat it. Drive-thrus are no longer just the conventional burger places. The same impact will be derived from drive-thru banks or dry cleaners, but again, without the revenue. Mrs. Bridge-Denzak clarified that P&Z made the recommendation to limit it to 3 restaurants, but it was not included as a stipulation.
Mr. Hatcher asked if the residents were OK with a car wash being located anywhere in the center. The audience unanimously answered no.
https://vimeo.com/302599371
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
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