"Thomas Jefferson said a democracy is dependent on an informed citizenry. I don't care whether it sounds corny or not. It's the truth." -Jim Lehrer
Carefree Truth
Issue #975, December 23, 2021
Issue #975, December 23, 2021
Janet Veves lives on Languid Lane. She expressed concern about the size of the planned resort. It was originally compared to the Hermosa Inn, which is small and unique. This is way too big, equal to two Hampton Inns. Why cram so much into such a small space?
Steve Prokopek replied that the original plan discussed was for 100-120 rooms and included a neighborhood commercial component, which the neighbors wanted eliminated. The Hermosa was used as an example of the resort style. The Hermosa sits on 6 acres. This parcel is 21 acres. If the same standards are applied of rooms to acreage, it meets the Hermosa density. Looking at the wash, flood plain, and rock formations, as well as the required setbacks along the east side, it will probably limit that down to the 18 acre range.
Jerry Wetta asked who would supply water to the site. Gary Neiss explained that the water would be supplied through the Carefree Water Company. The Water Company has a CAP allocation of 1300 acre feet plus an underground aquifer that it's been charging in partnership with the City of Scottsdale. The Carefree Water Company is also receiving 378 acre feet from the Town of Cave Creek that comes with the acquisition of the customers in the Carefree Service Area currently on the Cave Creek system.
Cave Creek is devoting 600 acre feet to the Desert Hills Water Company, which is outside of their town limits. With the removal of the 378 acre feet that will be transferred to Carefree Water, they will have a water allocation that is a bit south of what Carefree will have, but it is a larger community with more intense commercial, that is supported by a smaller water allocation and no underground aquifer.
Carefree has been planning their water resources for decades, planning for the recharge and the severity of the droughts, and is well positioned to deal with the future development in Carefree, including a potential resort at this site. There will be a sufficient water allocation to service this site. The water would be delivered through the existing infrastructure.
Mr. Wetta asked if the 2 or 3 surrounding lots going east on Whileway could be considered for a rezoning in the future. Mr. Prokopek said there are houses on those lots that are owned by the owner of the parcel being considered for a General Plan amendment that night, and there are existing houses on them. Mr. Wetta did not think there were, but said they might be talking about different lots.
Mr. Wetta asked if he understood correctly that Lot #1 could be left residential or could be included in a resort project. Mr. Prokopek confirmed that both Lots #1 & 2 could remain residential or could be part of a resort. Mr. Wetta asked how that would affect the intersection at Whileaway and Tom Darlington. Mr. Prokopek said the access to Whileaway would only remain if those lots remained residential, which is the legal access in place now. There would be controlled access only for emergency vehicles if those lots became part of a resort.
Carefree needs to work with Scottsdale for whatever development occurs on this site. The intersection at Whileaway and Tom Darlington, adjacent to The Boulders Spa, is a 4 way full movement intersection. It's very difficult to make a left turn onto Tom Darlington. They've tried to minimize the landscaping that hinders the vision for those making the turn, and it could play into the context of this overall development. But there should be no significant access from the resort moving up into the neighborhoods. It just doesn't make sense.
Sue Hardy asked what percentage of revenue comes from resorts. Mr. Neiss replied approximately 11%. Ms. Hardy asked what the projected revenue from the proposed resort would be. Mr. Neiss replied approximately $800,000. Ms. Hardy asked what percentage increase that would represent. Mr. Neiss didn't have that number off the top of his head but said it would certainly represent a significant increase, as will the Hampton Inn once it opens. Resort revenue currently comes from Civana, with a small amount coming from the Lutheran Retreat.
Ms. Hardy said the reduction of the 21 acres to 18 acres of usable land was due to the natural features on the property, but she asked if this took into account a buffer to preserve the appearance of that entrance to Carefree. It was hard for her to imagine how there would be room on 18 acres for the buildings, parking lots, places for delivery trucks and customers to ingress and egress with those setbacks left in place.
Mr. Prokopek explained that commercial setbacks were less than residential setbacks. But he agreed that intersection helped to brand Carefree, and said it would be looked at carefully as a critical feature that needs to be addressed under the zoning portion of this. He felt it was something that the Town must be conscious of as they move through the rezoning process of this site.
Ms. Hardy said she appreciated his response, shared concerns, and the careful thinking and planning that's gone into this. She noted that the huge pile of boulders in front of The Boulders resort gives a special character to the entrance of Carefree, and that the vegetation on the other side of Tom Darlington adds to that character, in contrast to the N.E. corner of Carefree Highway and Cave Creek Road that has a gas station at the entrance. She really didn't want to lose the beauty of the entrance at the N.W. corner.
She said the entrance to the Hermosa that is seen by visitors is lovely, but asked where all the entries and driveways to be used by delivery trucks at the future Carefree resort would be located. Access won't be through Whileaway or Languid, and would be dangerous off of Carefree Highway or Tom Darlington close to the intersection. Where will they access it that won't tear through the lovely vegetation that she is hoping will be part of the setback on that side?
Mr. Prokopek said 660' is the distance requirement from a major intersection. There is a full turn movement access to the commercial center across Carefree Highway in Scottsdale towards the southern end of the center. He said Scottsdale's traffic engineers would determine where that could be done safely for this property and would add turn lanes appropriately. There is an approximately 400' window between Carefree Highway going north on Tom Darlington and south from Languid Lane that would fall into that safe distance for a full turn movement. Scottsdale will figure out how to best do that.
Ms. Hardy asked if that was too close to the wash, which can be intense. Mr. Prokopek said he did look at that and there was room there. But the final decision would be up to Scottsdale's traffic engineers. Ms. Hardy said she appreciated being given the time to ask her questions and express her concerns.
She had some visitors from out of town today. They loved the Gardens, but when they went window shopping, they didn't spend their money in Carefree. The retail is very disappointing. Many storefronts are empty. Part of the rationale for this development is to attract folks to shop in the Town Center, but that's not what she's seeing. Her friends walk through the Gardens, then shop in Scottsdale or particularly in Cave Creek. She is not confident that Carefree will get the hoped for additional revenue from resort guests unless something is done to make the shopping experience more appealing and attractive by getting more beautiful shops in town.
Mr. Prokopek replied that there is a ton of work being done with the redevelopment program to revitalize the Town Center. A lot of new shops are coming in, including a home goods store and a coffee/bicycle shop. His conversations with local businesses have been very positive lately. Traffic in the Town Center has been increasing, so it is heading in the right direction. But part of it is looking at the infrastructure. The Town is looking at walkways to better connect the downtown with the existing neighborhoods and to make it more "walkable" internally, as well as looking at parking. It is all part of the rationale about how the the pieces fit together so the town can put its best foot forward to help make the Town Center a place where you can be proud to bring guests. He is seeing many people coming into town on bikes from Civana now.
Ms. Hardy again thanked them for taking the time to listen, but she still felt they should wait to approve this until they had a more accurate number of usable acres. She thought 18 acres was too high an estimate with the natural features and the setbacks, and with questions about safe access. Mr. Prokopek thanked her for her good questions and feedback.
https://vimeo.com/655558025
(Lyn's note: This was not brought up, but the State of Arizona only allows Major General Plan Amendments to be considered once a year, at this time of year.)
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Copyrighted
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list.
Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.
Steve Prokopek replied that the original plan discussed was for 100-120 rooms and included a neighborhood commercial component, which the neighbors wanted eliminated. The Hermosa was used as an example of the resort style. The Hermosa sits on 6 acres. This parcel is 21 acres. If the same standards are applied of rooms to acreage, it meets the Hermosa density. Looking at the wash, flood plain, and rock formations, as well as the required setbacks along the east side, it will probably limit that down to the 18 acre range.
Jerry Wetta asked who would supply water to the site. Gary Neiss explained that the water would be supplied through the Carefree Water Company. The Water Company has a CAP allocation of 1300 acre feet plus an underground aquifer that it's been charging in partnership with the City of Scottsdale. The Carefree Water Company is also receiving 378 acre feet from the Town of Cave Creek that comes with the acquisition of the customers in the Carefree Service Area currently on the Cave Creek system.
Cave Creek is devoting 600 acre feet to the Desert Hills Water Company, which is outside of their town limits. With the removal of the 378 acre feet that will be transferred to Carefree Water, they will have a water allocation that is a bit south of what Carefree will have, but it is a larger community with more intense commercial, that is supported by a smaller water allocation and no underground aquifer.
Carefree has been planning their water resources for decades, planning for the recharge and the severity of the droughts, and is well positioned to deal with the future development in Carefree, including a potential resort at this site. There will be a sufficient water allocation to service this site. The water would be delivered through the existing infrastructure.
Mr. Wetta asked if the 2 or 3 surrounding lots going east on Whileway could be considered for a rezoning in the future. Mr. Prokopek said there are houses on those lots that are owned by the owner of the parcel being considered for a General Plan amendment that night, and there are existing houses on them. Mr. Wetta did not think there were, but said they might be talking about different lots.
Mr. Wetta asked if he understood correctly that Lot #1 could be left residential or could be included in a resort project. Mr. Prokopek confirmed that both Lots #1 & 2 could remain residential or could be part of a resort. Mr. Wetta asked how that would affect the intersection at Whileaway and Tom Darlington. Mr. Prokopek said the access to Whileaway would only remain if those lots remained residential, which is the legal access in place now. There would be controlled access only for emergency vehicles if those lots became part of a resort.
Carefree needs to work with Scottsdale for whatever development occurs on this site. The intersection at Whileaway and Tom Darlington, adjacent to The Boulders Spa, is a 4 way full movement intersection. It's very difficult to make a left turn onto Tom Darlington. They've tried to minimize the landscaping that hinders the vision for those making the turn, and it could play into the context of this overall development. But there should be no significant access from the resort moving up into the neighborhoods. It just doesn't make sense.
Sue Hardy asked what percentage of revenue comes from resorts. Mr. Neiss replied approximately 11%. Ms. Hardy asked what the projected revenue from the proposed resort would be. Mr. Neiss replied approximately $800,000. Ms. Hardy asked what percentage increase that would represent. Mr. Neiss didn't have that number off the top of his head but said it would certainly represent a significant increase, as will the Hampton Inn once it opens. Resort revenue currently comes from Civana, with a small amount coming from the Lutheran Retreat.
Ms. Hardy said the reduction of the 21 acres to 18 acres of usable land was due to the natural features on the property, but she asked if this took into account a buffer to preserve the appearance of that entrance to Carefree. It was hard for her to imagine how there would be room on 18 acres for the buildings, parking lots, places for delivery trucks and customers to ingress and egress with those setbacks left in place.
Mr. Prokopek explained that commercial setbacks were less than residential setbacks. But he agreed that intersection helped to brand Carefree, and said it would be looked at carefully as a critical feature that needs to be addressed under the zoning portion of this. He felt it was something that the Town must be conscious of as they move through the rezoning process of this site.
Ms. Hardy said she appreciated his response, shared concerns, and the careful thinking and planning that's gone into this. She noted that the huge pile of boulders in front of The Boulders resort gives a special character to the entrance of Carefree, and that the vegetation on the other side of Tom Darlington adds to that character, in contrast to the N.E. corner of Carefree Highway and Cave Creek Road that has a gas station at the entrance. She really didn't want to lose the beauty of the entrance at the N.W. corner.
She said the entrance to the Hermosa that is seen by visitors is lovely, but asked where all the entries and driveways to be used by delivery trucks at the future Carefree resort would be located. Access won't be through Whileaway or Languid, and would be dangerous off of Carefree Highway or Tom Darlington close to the intersection. Where will they access it that won't tear through the lovely vegetation that she is hoping will be part of the setback on that side?
Mr. Prokopek said 660' is the distance requirement from a major intersection. There is a full turn movement access to the commercial center across Carefree Highway in Scottsdale towards the southern end of the center. He said Scottsdale's traffic engineers would determine where that could be done safely for this property and would add turn lanes appropriately. There is an approximately 400' window between Carefree Highway going north on Tom Darlington and south from Languid Lane that would fall into that safe distance for a full turn movement. Scottsdale will figure out how to best do that.
Ms. Hardy asked if that was too close to the wash, which can be intense. Mr. Prokopek said he did look at that and there was room there. But the final decision would be up to Scottsdale's traffic engineers. Ms. Hardy said she appreciated being given the time to ask her questions and express her concerns.
She had some visitors from out of town today. They loved the Gardens, but when they went window shopping, they didn't spend their money in Carefree. The retail is very disappointing. Many storefronts are empty. Part of the rationale for this development is to attract folks to shop in the Town Center, but that's not what she's seeing. Her friends walk through the Gardens, then shop in Scottsdale or particularly in Cave Creek. She is not confident that Carefree will get the hoped for additional revenue from resort guests unless something is done to make the shopping experience more appealing and attractive by getting more beautiful shops in town.
Mr. Prokopek replied that there is a ton of work being done with the redevelopment program to revitalize the Town Center. A lot of new shops are coming in, including a home goods store and a coffee/bicycle shop. His conversations with local businesses have been very positive lately. Traffic in the Town Center has been increasing, so it is heading in the right direction. But part of it is looking at the infrastructure. The Town is looking at walkways to better connect the downtown with the existing neighborhoods and to make it more "walkable" internally, as well as looking at parking. It is all part of the rationale about how the the pieces fit together so the town can put its best foot forward to help make the Town Center a place where you can be proud to bring guests. He is seeing many people coming into town on bikes from Civana now.
Ms. Hardy again thanked them for taking the time to listen, but she still felt they should wait to approve this until they had a more accurate number of usable acres. She thought 18 acres was too high an estimate with the natural features and the setbacks, and with questions about safe access. Mr. Prokopek thanked her for her good questions and feedback.
https://vimeo.com/655558025
(Lyn's note: This was not brought up, but the State of Arizona only allows Major General Plan Amendments to be considered once a year, at this time of year.)
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Copyrighted
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list.
Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.