Carefree Truth
Issue #710, December 14, 2018
Mayor Les Peterson opened the floor to public comments from residents. The first speaker was Mike Johnson, president of the Provence HOA. He stated that the HOA went through a lengthy process of polling their residents and holding board meetings to develop a position. They were very diligent. He thanked Empire for working with them and thanked the Council for encouraging them to work with the developer. But, meaning no disrespect, Mr. Johnson noted that he heard the word "concession" coming from the developer a lot that night. From his community's standpoint, agreeing to the development and the movement of the wash, along with the traffic, lights, and noise, were significant concessions, a lot more concessions than those made by Empire.
Their biggest concern was uncertainty about what would be built. He asked the Council to stipulate the wall. His community was disturbed about the 24 hour car wash and the 24/7 emergency medical center with an ambulance service. If allowed by the Special Use Permit (SUP) process, it doesn't go away. The residents, especially at the northern end of Provence, have given up a lot. It has been a tranquil place to live. All that is going to change. The other issue is traffic, which based on Mr. Johnson's math, will increase by 20%, especially during the snowbird season. He respectfully asked the Council not to allow a SUP process for the emergency medical center or a 24 hour car wash. They would not be opposed to a car wash with normal hours if it were located away from the houses. They are not asking for a lot.
Another uncertainty is the height of the building to house a medical center, relative to the changes in the grade differential. He asked that Provence's perspective please be considered when making that decision. He brought up one point that the HOA's attorney made. The language about the buildings states that the architecture shall contain residence-like form, and/or colors and materials. The attorney believed that "and/or" should be changed to "and". Mr. Johnson said they were here to support the development, rather than arguing. They want to see the Town make money and grow. They want to see everybody win, but they don't want to be the biggest losers. He thanked the Council for the opportunity to speak.
Diane Lunde, the Vice President of Provence HOA, said the 24/7 medical center was a huge concern. Provence is a family neighborhood with lots of children, many of whom live along the border with the proposed commercial development. She felt that ambulances would be disruptive and frightening to the children. She asked that the 16' tall parking lot light poles be reduced to 8' like the ones in the parking lot at Walmart. There are no street lights in Provence. She loves the atmosphere and the dark skies. She thought the 2nd full access point was hazardous without a traffic light. That heavily trafficked section of road already has a fair share of accidents. She noted that the traffic study was done in the summer, rather than during the season when the winter residents and the tourists are here. She felt that a car wash was both noisy and tacky, making it inappropriate in nice commercial development. She was also concerned about all the water that comes off of Black Mountain going through the wash, and wanted to be certain that the water going across the property could be properly handled. She appreciated all that Empire had done and said the images do look nice. She is proud to be a resident of Carefree.
Justin Henry from Austin, Texas represented Tenent Health Care in Dallas, Texas, known as Abrazo in this market. He had been called on before Ms. Lunde, but didn't have his notes handy. He referred to himself as "the hospital".
He stated that there is a great need in this market for acute and emergency services. 3 months ago, they identified this site and started working with Empire. The application accounted for their use. 4 weeks ago, he found out there was resistance to the use, and a stipulation recommended against it, so he felt he needed to be present at the Council meeting. The first part of the process was that night. He asked that stipulation against the hospital not be approved and the SUP process be allowed to proceed, after which they could really begin. The second part of the process was initiation of the SUP, allowing them to explain why the hospital was needed, why they were interested in this area, and winning over the neighbors. Next, they would proceed to the Planning & Zoning Commission (P&Z), and then on to the Council for approval.
He stated that there were no emergency services within a 10 mile drive, the closest being 27 minutes away, with an an average wait time of 4 hours and 15 minutes. Mr. Henry said that he had brought 2 others from Tenent to speak. Mayor Peterson noted 3 minutes were up and that he thought Mr. Henry had made his point. He asked if the 2 others had anything to say that Mr. Henry had not covered. Mr. Henry said they could go into more detail.
Provence board member Glenn Gommels said this was an emotional issue since it affected peoples' lives and homes. There was much debate at the P&Z meeting. The developer wanted a 24 hour emergency care center with ambulance service, a car wash, and one service station. P&Z's recommendation was to prohibit all of those, and to allow only 3 fast food drive-thru restaurants. Votes are like handshakes.
He understood the developer is in it to make money. Carefree is in this to build a community. It is most important to be able to count on the outcome of agreements and votes. They shouldn't "get undone at the very next meeting". He was asking for the outcome of the vote to be upheld. If "no" votes are overturned, what sort of expectations would residents have when SUPs are requested. The answer would be "yes". He asked the Council to mandate those stipulations if a commercial center were allowed. The house next door to his is for sale, and the owners had to drop the price $150,000 because of the commercial center. He called it "a massive transfer of wealth", and asked the Council to support the people they represent, and to enforce the rules agreed on at P&Z.
Scott Sperl said he was speaking not as a P&Z Commissioner, but as a good compromiser and a resident of Entrada, which is near enough to the proposed center to be affected. He had 3 suggestions. 1. There is a 9' differential between the the floor of Provence and the floor of the commercial building. For every foot that is less than 9', the commercial building height should be lowered a foot to maintain that relative difference. He would prefer that the building heights be limited to 24' but said he knew that was a
non-starter. 2. 1 fast food drive-thru could be traded for the car wash. 3. He thought the only way Carefree Highway will get improved is if Carefree puts up some money. Carefree Highway is a road in town. Carefree has $8 million in the bank, and can take out loans. Some of the revenue from the center could be used to get Carefree Highway to the 4 lanes it was meant to be.
Mark Dilly, a resident of Carefree Foothills, said he loves the ambiance and character of Carefree. Change is everywhere; buildings and developments will happen. But the Council is here to protect the interests of the residents. He suggested that outside professionals be hired to check on the flood plain since the rains can be destructive, and to perform another traffic study. He also suggested that the center should have the look and setbacks of The Summit center in Scottsdale. He wanted discussion about approval tabled until his suggested studies were done.
James Fajardo, from Carefree Foothills, said he is a new resident. He didn't know how long this project had been in the works, but he hadn't heard anything other than that the Army Corps of Engineers were moving the drainage. He had never been in the desert before, and October was an eye opener for him. He had never seen water come down like that. The highway by his house was closed. He hadn't heard anything about the environmental impact. How long did the road study last? There is different traffic at different times. There is a large volume of traffic at 60th Street. The developer has the right to develop, but it will impact life here. He felt that more due diligence should be done. A vote on the project should be tabled until more is known and more input from the community is gathered.
Gerald Graham, a resident of Provence, said he did his own "traffic study". At 10 that morning, he was trying to turn left onto Carefree Highway. This was not during school drop off times or rush hour. He had to wait until someone kindly stopped to let him in in order to make the turn safely. He asked that the stipulations recommended by P&Z be included in the final approval. That would help them feel better about the center.
Tom Dvorak, a resident of Provence, said he can't believe that Carefree hadn't talked to Scottsdale about the expansion of Carefree Highway to 4 lanes. His house is where the realigned wash would make a 90% turn, and he is worried about the water making that turn. He agreed that another outside drainage study should be done. He wanted assurance that the 8' wall would come all the way down to Carefree Highway to help with buffering between the center and his home.
Patty Townsend, a Carefree Foothills resident, said she loves Carefree and its uniqueness. She felt that something of this magnitude should be unique as well. It should be more green and fresher than the proposal on the table, with less impact to the wild life and more friendly to everyone. She was also concerned about the light pollution.
https://vimeo.com/302590489
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list.
Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.
Issue #710, December 14, 2018
Mayor Les Peterson opened the floor to public comments from residents. The first speaker was Mike Johnson, president of the Provence HOA. He stated that the HOA went through a lengthy process of polling their residents and holding board meetings to develop a position. They were very diligent. He thanked Empire for working with them and thanked the Council for encouraging them to work with the developer. But, meaning no disrespect, Mr. Johnson noted that he heard the word "concession" coming from the developer a lot that night. From his community's standpoint, agreeing to the development and the movement of the wash, along with the traffic, lights, and noise, were significant concessions, a lot more concessions than those made by Empire.
Their biggest concern was uncertainty about what would be built. He asked the Council to stipulate the wall. His community was disturbed about the 24 hour car wash and the 24/7 emergency medical center with an ambulance service. If allowed by the Special Use Permit (SUP) process, it doesn't go away. The residents, especially at the northern end of Provence, have given up a lot. It has been a tranquil place to live. All that is going to change. The other issue is traffic, which based on Mr. Johnson's math, will increase by 20%, especially during the snowbird season. He respectfully asked the Council not to allow a SUP process for the emergency medical center or a 24 hour car wash. They would not be opposed to a car wash with normal hours if it were located away from the houses. They are not asking for a lot.
Another uncertainty is the height of the building to house a medical center, relative to the changes in the grade differential. He asked that Provence's perspective please be considered when making that decision. He brought up one point that the HOA's attorney made. The language about the buildings states that the architecture shall contain residence-like form, and/or colors and materials. The attorney believed that "and/or" should be changed to "and". Mr. Johnson said they were here to support the development, rather than arguing. They want to see the Town make money and grow. They want to see everybody win, but they don't want to be the biggest losers. He thanked the Council for the opportunity to speak.
Diane Lunde, the Vice President of Provence HOA, said the 24/7 medical center was a huge concern. Provence is a family neighborhood with lots of children, many of whom live along the border with the proposed commercial development. She felt that ambulances would be disruptive and frightening to the children. She asked that the 16' tall parking lot light poles be reduced to 8' like the ones in the parking lot at Walmart. There are no street lights in Provence. She loves the atmosphere and the dark skies. She thought the 2nd full access point was hazardous without a traffic light. That heavily trafficked section of road already has a fair share of accidents. She noted that the traffic study was done in the summer, rather than during the season when the winter residents and the tourists are here. She felt that a car wash was both noisy and tacky, making it inappropriate in nice commercial development. She was also concerned about all the water that comes off of Black Mountain going through the wash, and wanted to be certain that the water going across the property could be properly handled. She appreciated all that Empire had done and said the images do look nice. She is proud to be a resident of Carefree.
Justin Henry from Austin, Texas represented Tenent Health Care in Dallas, Texas, known as Abrazo in this market. He had been called on before Ms. Lunde, but didn't have his notes handy. He referred to himself as "the hospital".
He stated that there is a great need in this market for acute and emergency services. 3 months ago, they identified this site and started working with Empire. The application accounted for their use. 4 weeks ago, he found out there was resistance to the use, and a stipulation recommended against it, so he felt he needed to be present at the Council meeting. The first part of the process was that night. He asked that stipulation against the hospital not be approved and the SUP process be allowed to proceed, after which they could really begin. The second part of the process was initiation of the SUP, allowing them to explain why the hospital was needed, why they were interested in this area, and winning over the neighbors. Next, they would proceed to the Planning & Zoning Commission (P&Z), and then on to the Council for approval.
He stated that there were no emergency services within a 10 mile drive, the closest being 27 minutes away, with an an average wait time of 4 hours and 15 minutes. Mr. Henry said that he had brought 2 others from Tenent to speak. Mayor Peterson noted 3 minutes were up and that he thought Mr. Henry had made his point. He asked if the 2 others had anything to say that Mr. Henry had not covered. Mr. Henry said they could go into more detail.
Provence board member Glenn Gommels said this was an emotional issue since it affected peoples' lives and homes. There was much debate at the P&Z meeting. The developer wanted a 24 hour emergency care center with ambulance service, a car wash, and one service station. P&Z's recommendation was to prohibit all of those, and to allow only 3 fast food drive-thru restaurants. Votes are like handshakes.
He understood the developer is in it to make money. Carefree is in this to build a community. It is most important to be able to count on the outcome of agreements and votes. They shouldn't "get undone at the very next meeting". He was asking for the outcome of the vote to be upheld. If "no" votes are overturned, what sort of expectations would residents have when SUPs are requested. The answer would be "yes". He asked the Council to mandate those stipulations if a commercial center were allowed. The house next door to his is for sale, and the owners had to drop the price $150,000 because of the commercial center. He called it "a massive transfer of wealth", and asked the Council to support the people they represent, and to enforce the rules agreed on at P&Z.
Scott Sperl said he was speaking not as a P&Z Commissioner, but as a good compromiser and a resident of Entrada, which is near enough to the proposed center to be affected. He had 3 suggestions. 1. There is a 9' differential between the the floor of Provence and the floor of the commercial building. For every foot that is less than 9', the commercial building height should be lowered a foot to maintain that relative difference. He would prefer that the building heights be limited to 24' but said he knew that was a
non-starter. 2. 1 fast food drive-thru could be traded for the car wash. 3. He thought the only way Carefree Highway will get improved is if Carefree puts up some money. Carefree Highway is a road in town. Carefree has $8 million in the bank, and can take out loans. Some of the revenue from the center could be used to get Carefree Highway to the 4 lanes it was meant to be.
Mark Dilly, a resident of Carefree Foothills, said he loves the ambiance and character of Carefree. Change is everywhere; buildings and developments will happen. But the Council is here to protect the interests of the residents. He suggested that outside professionals be hired to check on the flood plain since the rains can be destructive, and to perform another traffic study. He also suggested that the center should have the look and setbacks of The Summit center in Scottsdale. He wanted discussion about approval tabled until his suggested studies were done.
James Fajardo, from Carefree Foothills, said he is a new resident. He didn't know how long this project had been in the works, but he hadn't heard anything other than that the Army Corps of Engineers were moving the drainage. He had never been in the desert before, and October was an eye opener for him. He had never seen water come down like that. The highway by his house was closed. He hadn't heard anything about the environmental impact. How long did the road study last? There is different traffic at different times. There is a large volume of traffic at 60th Street. The developer has the right to develop, but it will impact life here. He felt that more due diligence should be done. A vote on the project should be tabled until more is known and more input from the community is gathered.
Gerald Graham, a resident of Provence, said he did his own "traffic study". At 10 that morning, he was trying to turn left onto Carefree Highway. This was not during school drop off times or rush hour. He had to wait until someone kindly stopped to let him in in order to make the turn safely. He asked that the stipulations recommended by P&Z be included in the final approval. That would help them feel better about the center.
Tom Dvorak, a resident of Provence, said he can't believe that Carefree hadn't talked to Scottsdale about the expansion of Carefree Highway to 4 lanes. His house is where the realigned wash would make a 90% turn, and he is worried about the water making that turn. He agreed that another outside drainage study should be done. He wanted assurance that the 8' wall would come all the way down to Carefree Highway to help with buffering between the center and his home.
Patty Townsend, a Carefree Foothills resident, said she loves Carefree and its uniqueness. She felt that something of this magnitude should be unique as well. It should be more green and fresher than the proposal on the table, with less impact to the wild life and more friendly to everyone. She was also concerned about the light pollution.
https://vimeo.com/302590489
Lyn Hitchon
Prepared by Carefree Truth
Visit our website at www.carefreetruth2.com If you know anyone who would like to be added to the Carefree Truth email list, please have them contact me. Feel free to share Carefree Truth with others on your list.
Visit www.carefreeazbusinesses.com to see more info about businesses in Carefree. Please support our merchants.